About Maple Sandbox


Blaze, in fighting form

We (Blaze and Outraged Canadian) connected through another website after we both were stunned and dismayed to discover that, after almost 40 years as Canadian citizens, the United States might still consider us US citizens or “US persons” for tax purposes.
Isaac Brock Society literally saved our sanity and gave us strength and strategies for saving ourselves and others.  Eventually, as both we and Brock changed, we decided it was time to Blaze a new Outraged Canadian trail.
Outraged Canadian’s stand-in

We invite others to play with us in a spirit of fun, friendship, sharing and enthusiasm as we learn, grow and share together.  While we offer a calm and casual approach, we know the battle against the IRS is a serious one that has turned lives upside down.  So, we are determined to stand up to bullies, wherever they come from.
We know how alarming, distressing and worrying issues of dealing with IRS from afar can be.   At Maple Sandbox, we aim to offer a dwelling for rest and relaxation in an atmosphere of sharing, exploring, and learning that will help people resist the intrusion of the IRS into their honest, law-abiding tax-paying lives.
We may be conscientious objectors to the fight, but we do not shy away from the conflict. We plan to arm ourselves and others with resources, respect and advocacy against the attempted intrusion of IRS into the lives of honest, law-abiding tax paying people.
Canadians and Americans fight wars differently.  Likewise, Maple Sandbox will conduct this dispute to reflect Canada’s long and esteemed history of fighting for freedom, while also promoting global peacemaking and international development.
We are allies with Isaac Brock Society and others around the world.  As strong trading partners, many of our toys were imported from Brock.  We hope to export buckets of sand to Brock.  Maple Sandbox and Brock will share building blocks as we construct and expand our treasure chests.
Brock soldiers are welcome to relax in our playground.   Likewise, we expect some Sandboxers may also be Brock troopers.
Maple Sandbox believes learning and growing occurs through open, honest exchange of thoughts, ideas and communications.  We cherish freedom of speech and freedom of expression as fundamental Canadian values.  At the same time, neither freedom is absolute– nor should they be in a civilized world.  So, we will follow Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which provides that “reasonable limits” may be placed on individual rights in a free and democratic society.
Come play and fight with us as we Blaze a new Outraged Canadian Trail.

Blaze, raring to go!


66 thoughts on “About Maple Sandbox

  1. All social movements exist on a continuum – with opinions and tactics at either end, and many moving somewhere between those poles. Glad to see another part of the continuum.

  2. At Isaac Brock I have suggested the idea of a coordinated multi-city CLN party/protest for sometime around April 15, 2014. The basic idea is to hold simultaneous parties at pubs in various cities and link them by Skype. We could invite media and some Canadian politicians, too. The date is just a suggestion. It would probably work best to hold the event on a Saturday, when differences in time zones could most easily be accommodated.
    There seems to be a fair amount of interest in the idea. You might want to start a discussion thread here for such party and protest ideas.

    1. Sounds like a plan. We just celebrated (quietly by ourselves) the first anniversary of our consulate visit and were surprised how good it made us feel to realize that the uncertainty of that day led to a CLN 25 weeks later and the sense of freedom those simple pieces of paper brought to our lives.

  3. Thank you so much for creating this blog! We are in the middle of this IRS nightmare. I appreciate the community of like-minded people.

  4. @Had Enough: Welcome. I hope you will continue to share, learn and grow with us as we stand up to IRS bullies together.
    Are you in Canada? If you are, you probably have more protection from IRS than our friends in most other countries.
    However, we still have to be on guard that the government does not try to sell us out and that banks don’t violate our rights.
    Unfortunately, our friends in other countries, especially Switzerland, are already finding their bank accounts are being closed, they can’t renew mortgages or find employment because of FATCA and IRS.

    1. Yes. I am in Canada. I am a Canadian who married an American and became a naturalized US citizen during the 4 years I lived there. Big mistake! We have been living back in Canada for 10 years. 2 years ago we learned we had to keep filing US taxes. We filed 7 years of back taxes at that time. This year we hired a new US accountant who realized our old one did not file the 3520 form for us. Now we have to get caught up on 8 years of those forms! Our accountants bills are astronomical! We can not afford to be Americans any more! We are getting all these matters settled and then we plan on making the ‘Hard’ decision!

  5. Well, I for one would gladly relinquish my US citizenship (Canadian born, now back) except that my Social Security payments, for which I contributed many many thousands of $$, would stop, leaving my retirement in shreds. That’s a pretty big club for anyone in my situation, however would love to know what I can do to help Canadian banks and politicians heed our concerns.

  6. Hi Sandra,
    That’s a shame you’re caught up in the US mess but you’ll get a lot of support here.
    We`ve been doing various things to fight FATCA, such as writing government officials and the Canadian Bankers Assn and protesting (so far in Ottawa, Calgary and Toronto), sent a petition to MP Ted Hsu for presentation at Parliament, as well as online petitions, radio interviews, debunking myths by writing comments to newspaper articles, distributing anti-FATCA pamphlets. Blaze has also written several newspaper articles. So, welcome aboard! Perhaps you have some ideas too.
    Eligibility for social security payments is not dependent on citizenship status. Here is a link to a Social Security Administration pamphlet for non-resident aliens.
    http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/EN-05-10137.pdf and an article on the American Citizens Abroad website, “Social Security Payments After Renunciation of US Citizenship.” http://americansabroad.org/issues/social-security/social-security-payments-after-renunciation-of-us-citizenship/
    There was discussion about social security after expatriation on Isaac Brock recently, starting with this post http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/relinquishment/comment-page-20/#comment-682627 on November 19th and running onto the next page on November 22nd, which might also be of use.
    There’s a list of what one loses upon renunciation/relinquishment in State Department form 4081, “Statement of Understanding Concerning the Consequences and Ramifications of Renunciation or Relinquishment of US Nationality.” http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81607.pdf

  7. Sandra: Welcome to Maple Sandbox. The best thing you can do for yourself is stay calm. Pacifica has given some good information in her response.
    You are among friends here. I hope you will be able to learn from our experiences and share your own information with us.
    Your best protection from the IRS is your Canadian citizenship

  8. Hi Maplesandbox folks – I’ve just discovered your site & would love to join a protest gathering in mid-April! I’m in the Hamilton, Ont area but could consider coming up to Toronto….
    I have a question – can anyone help? I’ve posted this on the IBS site but thought I’d try here too; maybe someone here knows something different.
    We’ve lived in Canada for 40+ years & became citizens in the 1990s. Hubby renounced US citizenship in 2012. I will renounce this spring.
    We have just sold our small winter place in Florida & complete the sale in March. There will be a small capital gain that we have to pay taxes to the IRS. I still have my SSN; hubby still has his SSN in relation to receiving a small monthly payment from SS (as do I)
    ISSUE: When we complete this small sale, should he use his “old” SSN or does he have to get a new (post-renunciation) ITN?
    I’ve written to several “experts” via the web but have gotten contradictory answers. Some say “your SSN stays with you forever” while others say “SSN post-renunciation is only used in relation to SSN payments and otherwise you have to get an ITN”.
    Any of you had experience in this regard or know “for sure”?
    I’ll be Soooooooo glad to get this sale done – -the last of our US holdings – – soon afterwards I can take the oath and turn my back free & clear. But there is sadness too; I was born in the (US) nation’s capital & have always been proud of that. But the mountain of punishing paperwork has worn us down & the attitude of my country saying “guilty before being proved innocent” has hurt as much or more than anything.
    Time to leave…..

  9. Welcome to the Sandbox LM.
    You said you will be renouncing this spring. Are you eligible to relinquish instead? Since becoming a Canadian citizen, have you done anything that would maintain you as a US citizen–i.e. voted in US election, had US passport or filed IRS returns? If you haven’t, you should be able to relinquish instead of renounce.
    You mentioned the mountain of paperwork, so that may mean you have been filing with IRS. The good news would be those obligations would cease after renounciation–but I think you would still need to file in 2015 for 2014. Can anyone else advise if that is correct?
    So, if you sell your property this year and file in 2015 for 2014, I think you would so so using your SSN. That is only my personal opinion based on common sense. However, as you know, there does not seem to be much common sense in dealing with the IRS.
    Please note, my comments are based on what I have personally learned. They are not accounting or legal advice.
    There are some infomation sessions being held in Toronto, London and Waterloo that you might find helpful.

  10. Couldn’t believe it. Today I attended a seminar in Florida geared to Cdn citizens holding US property (like a winter condo) & one of the speakers was a very well known cross-border accountant. Asked him the question about whether hubby should use his SIN or have to get a new TIN now that he has renounced.
    The word from this expert was “your SSN never dies & should be used if necessary after one renounces – – no need to / should not get a TIN.
    He also suggested that in 2015 when we report this sale (as well as my renunciation) since the property is held jointly 50/50, that hubby & I should file jointly so to pay less tax, that we can do this even tho we haven’t filed jointly for a couple years.
    2015 will be my last US IRS filing!!!!!
    BTW, can’t relinquish because I’ve done IRS filing and voted since getting Cdn citizenship. The relinquishing has required a lot of legal and accounting support (wish I had found this & IBS webblogs earlier) but once this sale goes through then everything will be in order for making my trip to the consulate.
    BTW, the accountant who spoke today also suggested that folks like me, who will renounce in the spring, should make sure to get a notarized statement from the consulate on the date of oath-taking to show my bank so they don’t “iidentify me” as a US citizen prior to my receiving my CLN that can be copied and given to the bank for their records. Good suggestion.

  11. @LM: As a retired Human Resources manager in Canada, I knew one should only have one Canadian SIN for life and I suspected the same was true for the US, but I didn’t feel I had the expertise to advise you on that. I’m glad it was clarified for you.
    I hope that information helped you.
    I don’t believe the Consulate will give you a notarized statement while you are awaiting for your CLN. I believe others have asked for documentation, but all they receive is the receipt for the fee for renunciation. People relinquishing don’t even receive that.
    However, as you may have learned from reading here, Canadian banks cannot legally ask you where you were born. If they do, we have grounds for a lawsuit against the banks. If the government changes Canadian laws for FATCA, we have grounds for a Charter challenge against the government.
    I hope you will continue to hang out here and share your information and experiences with us.

  12. @LM, congrats on being in the final stages of your divorce from the US. I’ve read on here, and over at Brock that many people have mixed feelings about renouncing, it’s just too damn bad that people are forced into it. I was a little kid when I came here, so have always felt Canadian, and resent them trying to drag me back. However, I can certainly empathize, and I will most certainly rejoice with you when you’re free and clear. Of course we don’t have any place similar to Florida, but the Okanagan sure is nice, with mild winters!

  13. I repeal FATCA and the elimination of the US tax based on citizenship unfairly in place. We want justice for ALL Canadians!
    We want EQUALITY and respect.
    Please let us know how.

  14. Linda, you’re good — I wish you could repeal FATCA and its combination with US citizenship-based taxation. If the US had residence-based taxation, FATCA would not be the problem it is.
    Have you written to your Canadian government representatives telling them what YOU want?

  15. @Calgary411, You made a very good suggestion to Linda!
    We need to let people who are new to this website, and who have recently found about FATCA and CBT, know that many people have been writing their MP’s, the Finance Minister, and other politicians on a regular basis for months now to complain about FATCA. I bet you if you asked Flaherty what has been the most common topic of correspondence he has received from the citizens of Canada over the last two years, and he would likely say FATCA – well he probably wouldn’t admit it, but he likely knows it. Yet, despite our loud complaining, our government still went ahead and signed a deal with the devil and sold the soul of Canadian sovereignty in return for the removal of an extortionate threat directed at our banks.
    Until very recently only a few Canadians (percentage wise) with ‘US person’ status living in Canada had even heard of FATCA. Those numbers are starting to increase rather dramatically as we can tell by all the new visitors here and at isaacbrocksociety.ca.
    If all our new anti- FATCA friends would also take the time to tell their MP’s what they think about FATCA, and ask them to do something to stop it, our politicians would really start to think twice about ramming FATCA down the throats of 1 million or more voters.
    Maybe I should make a post on this. here and at Brock to encourage all the newbies to MAKE SOME NOISE!

  16. @ Blaze. In reference to your comment of January 22, 2014, you probably know that by now, the Canadian banks are now asking for the place of birth when you open a new investment account. If this is illegal or not I am not sure. Now, when I read the IGA that Flaherty signed on February 5, 2014, there is clause that allows the banks to ask more questions for opening new accounts Which I think the banks are using to justify the place of birth question. What do you think ?

  17. I personally think under current banking and human rights laws, banks cannot ask for place of birth. However, the proposed law to enable the IGA prevails over those laws.
    The CRA information says financial institutions are not required to ask for place of birth. As others have pointed out, that is very different than saying must not ask for place of birth.
    As John Richardson has said, the IGA makes discrimination against “US persons” mandatory.

  18. Hello.
    If I may add a comment here… Banks are federally chartered and fall under the federal Banking Act, which I believes limits the information they may collect. They are also subject to the Private Information and Protection of Electronic Data Act (PIPEDA). However, investment accounts are subject to provincial regulation, not federal, even if managed by the investment branch of a bank. Whatever the details of the law, it will be different law for an ordinary bank account and for an investment account, even if held at the same institution.

  19. I am an American married to a Canadian. I too have found it quite frustrating that the US government wants their hands in my pockets in spite of the fact that I no longer live their and don’t plan to return permanently.

  20. @Pamela, sorry to hear you and your husband are caught in this. That the US is trying to enforce their archaic Citizenship-based taxation policy is quite simply a cash grab by a desperate government.
    We have to keep fighting to get the message about the FATCA travesty out to everyone. We need Canadians everywhere to hear, to understand and to fight for our rights as Canadians (and residents). We must stop our own government from cravenly changing Canadian laws to appease a rapacious foreign government.

  21. A funny thing happened on the way to complying with filing tax returns for my daughters, both Canadians with A US born mother. Seems one needs a social security number in order to file, and it also seems the IRS doesn’t talk to the SS department, thus leaving quite a hole in the program here. To me, this is a bureaucratic problem only the Americans can get themselves into.

  22. I am interested in donating to your cause and the Alliance for the Defense of Canadian Sovereignty.
    Please let me know how this can be done.
    Ted Siebert

  23. @Ted Siebert. Welcome to the Maple Sandbox, and we’re happy to have you onboard with our cause and more than happy to have you donate! Wonderful!
    The Alliance has it’s own website, and you can donate from their site. There is a big red ‘donate now’ button right on their main page. If you wish to donate less than $250, you can either send a cheque or donate by email transfer. That’s what I do and it works really well.
    Again, welcome – and thank you!

  24. thank u ted. donations r very needed and welcome.
    i hope the publicity we r getting will result in a groundswell of donations.
    sorry 4 lower case. i have broken shoulder.

  25. I am supporting the lawsuite filed against Harper government by Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Soverenighty. They will need a lot of financial support. They expect this law suite to go all the way to the Supreme Court. I urge everyone affected by this illegal intrusion into Canada banking system to donate to this suite and to stand up to the bully IRS by note replying to the demands of this government Everyone should be standing up for privacy rights. The young people I work seem to accept the fact they have no privacy. I disagree with them and think we need to stand up for everyone’s Privacy Rights.

  26. Connie, thank you for your kind thoughts.
    For me, even more important than our privacy rights, is the right to make our own laws. Our Government of Canada gave that away to a foreign country.
    This can change if people are willing to donate, and donate again and again.

  27. This is my first visit to this website. I looked up the ‘Maple Sandbox Rules’ section to learn that: “Maple Sandbox is a gathering place for “US persons” to come together to share, learn and explore.” As a border baby, I also have taken issue with the IRS/CRA agreement with my MP, the CRA, etc. and was looking forward to a website that might provide me further insights and support. However, the core of my argument (as a border baby) is that I am not a ‘U.S. person’ by any stretch of the imagination (born in the U.S. because it was the nearest hospital as sanctioned and funded by the Canadian government). The eight generations that preceded mine is a history of proud Canadians. The ultimate evidence of the absurdity of this regulation is that its net would find a border baby reportable. My adjective for legislators who would report its citizens to a foreign government is not printable.

  28. Welcome to the Maple Sandbox, cgdubois. The “US Persons” is in quotes, and is meant to be ironic. Our motto on our header is ‘ a gathering place for people fighting FATCA, FBAR, and US citizenship-based taxation.
    Many of us do not consider ourselves US persons, but know, unfortunately, that the US govt doesn’t agree with us.
    My opinion is that as a border baby you have good reason to consider yourself Canadian only. We have to continue to agitate and, again unfortunately, fight against our own government to get it recognized that being born in the US does not make us US persons and liable to have all of our personal financial information sent to a foreign govt (and vulnerable to ridiculous fines and penalties). Please consider donating to the lawsuit, however much you might be able to spare. It’s people like us that are having to fund the lawsuit, against the governments unlimited big coffers.

  29. @cjdubois: I echo Outraged in welcoming you to Sandbox.
    Most of us, like you, do not consider ourselves U.S. persons and detest that our own Canadian government has allowed a foreign government to apply that label to us and claim us as perpetual tax serfs with a lifelong obligation to the United States.
    We have been speaking loudly against this three years. We hope you will join us.
    I think you will find this a place of support and information–although we will not be able to provide you with the answers you want to hear because of the absurdity of all of this.

    1. I’m seeking advice on how to proceed. I am a Canadian citizen born in the US (US citizen) that frequents the US for work. I have not filed taxes in the US nor do I currently have a US passport but my first passport as an infant was US and I have a SS card. I have been told at the airport in customs that I must enter the US with a US passport as my Can passport shows a US birthplace. Tax compliance appears to be very costly but inevitable as does applying for a US passport. Are RESP’s still taxed in the US or did that change last year? Any advice/strategy is appreciated.

    2. @Michael: Welcome to Maple Sandbox. Your dilemma is one many are struggling with.
      There is not an easy answer, but first I advise you not to rush into getting a U.S. passport. It is all very complicated and a U.S. passport will comp;icate it even further.


      Before I try to answer, I am going to ask a few questions:

      Am I correct in assuming you have been a Canadian citizen from bitth?  Or are you a naturilized Canadian citizen? 

      Have you ever worked for a federal, provincial or munucipal government in Canada?



    3. Hi Lynne,
      Thanks for responding. I was born in 1969 in the US and moved to Canada when I was about a month old. My Canadian citizenship is dated 1980. I have not worked for a government of any sort. I’m currently contacting the US consulate to determine if I am indeed still a US citizen but this is more frustrating than I could ever imagine.
      Thanks, Michael

    4. Michael, You asked a specific question- ‘are RESPs still taxed in the US?’
      Firstly, you will find that you are considered by the IRS to be a US citizen. Secondly, I presume you meant RESPs rather than RRSPs.
      RESPs are foreign trusts as far as the US is concerned. It is so complex as to be impossible to understand. There is only one way to deal with them. Don’t mention to anyone that you have one. RRSPs are different. There is no need to report them until such time as money is withdrawn. At that time the amount withdrawn is ordinary income with a corresponding credit for canadian taxes paid.

    5. @Michael:  Although I still need further clarification on your situation, I will try to answer as best as I can.

      Were you born in the US to Canadian parents (or even one Canadian parent)? If so, you may be able to get the date on your citizenship amended to birth. This could free you from a possible Exit Tax, but it would require you to be compliant for five years.

      If this is your situation, it is important you resist getting a US passport because there is a proposal (that may or may not be accepted) that “Accidental Americans” who were dual citizens at birth may be able to renounce somewhat more easily than they can currently.  One provision of this is that the person should never have held a U.S. passport except to depart the U.S.  You can learn more about this and some of the discussion around it at the thread  Obama FY2016 budget proposes limited relief for accidental duals-at-birth who give up U.S. citizenship at Issac Brock Society.

      If you became a natuaralized Canadian citizen in 1980, you would normally be able to apply for a Certificate of Loss of Nationality based on a pre-1986 reliquishment under the law at that time. But (and this is a huge BUT), if you were born in 1969, that means you were a minor at the time of your naturalization as a Canadian citizen.  That means the US Department of State will likely not not consider it a relinquishing act for you and will not issue a CLN. That means you would have to renounce and pay the $2350 renunciation fee. 


      Renouncing or getting a CLN does not require you to be compliant with the IRS.  However, the IRS has an expectation that you will become compliant.   Some have done that. Others have chosen to ignore that expectation. Everyone needs to do whatever will give the most peace of mind–if there is any such thing in this whole nightmare.


      Your situation is complicated.  I know this information is not what you want to hear.  I wish I had better news for you.


      Please note I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. You may want to consider consulting with John Richardson. At a minimum, you should read What You Should Consider Before Contacting a Lawyer at John’s Citizenship Solutions site.


      Has your bank or financial institution asked you any questions about your U.S. place of birth for FATCA?

  30. Isn’t taxation without representation illegal in the US? It seems to me you would have a better chance of success taking the matter to where it came from. I sent a brief email to the ACLU a year ago concerning the FATCA titled “no taxation without representation” and received a acknowledgement it was received but nothing followed from the ACLU.
    My wife Peggy and myself have spent $11K becoming tax compliant because it seemed to be the least expensive way out.
    We hope you win.
    Duane Sandmeyer
    Duane Sandmeyer

    1. Hi Duane, I echo Lynne’s words – I’m sorry you and your wife are caught up in this mess.

      Unfortunately there is no chacne that the IRS would ever listen to expats. And since I have always considered myself Canadian, and that I relinquished my citizenship decades ago, going to the IRS or US govt isn’t something I would ever have considered doing.

      I am much more upset with my own government who has caved in and is serving up their own citizens on a platter to a foreign government. I really did think, initially, that Canada would stand up for her citizens, given past history. Sadly, very, very sadly, I was wrong.

  31. @Duane: Welcome to the sandbox.
    It is horrendous what the U.S. Canada and the compliance industry are doing to people. I’m sad to hear you and your wife were forced into coming into compliance.
    Do you mind telling us what your next step will be? Do you plan to renounce?
    Did the accountants tell you CRA will not collect for IRS on any Canadian citizen and will not collect on penalties for IRS on any Canadian resident?
    Are you a Canadian citizen? When did you become a Canadian citizen? Depending on the year, you may have relinquished US citizenship at that time.
    Some people are lobbying the US government. Some are considering a challenge to CBT. Republicans Overseas say they are close to launching a constitutional challenge in the U.S.
    Many of us are focusing on how Canada surrendered Canadian citizens, residents, laws and constitution to a foreign bully. That is the reason for our lawsuit. I hope you will join with us. Please donate.

  32. I am an outraged Canadian that our government would subordinate its’ sovereignty to a foreign government. Whatever happened to the Canada I know when the Pearson government protected US draft dodgers? How can we rally US citizens by birth who made (and make) Canada their home to protest our discontent on the steps of Parliament, especially now when we have a federal election looming on the horizon? .

  33. @Dave We and our allies at Isaac Brock Society are trying to fight back. Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty is fighting in Canadian courts.
    You are right. We need everyone in this battle, especially in an election year. Unfortunately, all political parties are silent on FATCA now.
    There was one small protest in Ottawa a couple of years ago in front of the Parliament building. We need more to make an impact.

    “Where have all the young men gone? Long time passing. Where have all the young men gone? Long time ago.”

    We need to find more of those draft dodgers and get them in this fight. Does anyone know how to do that?

  34. I’m just discovering that my partner may be an “accidental American” due to being born in the US as the town his Canadian parents lived in used the hospital “across the line” back in the ’50’s. All births in from this little town where done at this hospital at that time so I imagine there are quite a few individuals like him. He has a Canadian birth certificate (not a US issued one) that list the Canadian town as his place of birth. So, do we need to worry? Would love someones thoughts on this. Thanks.

    1. Susan: Unless there is more you need not worry. His birth certificate and presumably his passport say ‘made in Canada’ What more can you ask for?

    2. @Susab If the birth certificate is Canadian and gives a Canadian town as his place of birth, I agree with Duke.  There is nothing to indicate he was born in the U.S.  

      If your partner’s bank ever asks where he was born, he should reply with the town and province on the birth certificate.

      if, however, your partner has ever done anything to attempt to claim U.S. citizenship from his cross-border birth, that changes things.

  35. Please note that, on March 22, NDP House Leader Peter Julian asked the Minister of Revenue during Question Period about the new Liberal government lack of action on protecting the privacy rights of Canadians with respect to the FATCA issue.
    Here is a transcript of Peter’s question with a link to the video clip:

    1. Thank you Peter Julian.  I will give this its own thread.

      I hope you will continue to post updates here abd will continue to hold the Fibbing Libs to account for their hypopcrisy.

  36. Lynne, Just want you to know how much I appreciate the Sandbox. After being banned from the Isaac Brock Society, I found myself in a very deep, dark place. Not sure if I would have crawled out without the Sandbox. Thank you.

  37. My dual US-Canadian adult children are investigating renouncing US citizenship. They never had a US passport as they always travelled on their Can one. However the paperwork requires the US passport be turned in. Is their Consular Report of Birth Abroad sufficient, or must they get a US passport only to surrender it? It’s been impossible to find an answer to this……

    1. Answered on the IBS site. Expired passports are shown to the vice-consul and returned to the owner. No need to get a new one. No need for the children to get one. Read the e-mail from CanadaCLNEnquiries again

  38. I don’t know where to put this comment. And I don’t know if anyone cares, but I need to vent. Been trying to forget all this FATCA BS, and regret having gotten myself all worked out commenting at a Hill article today. It is SO FRUSTRATING to put my all into truthful comments and then to see them disappear. Many of my comments are still there, but the really good ones are gone. Reminder to self: live own life and don’t care about truth.

  39. @Embee regarding your comment from IsaacBrockSociety: “It’s impossible for me to focus on FATCA right now. The Trump betrayal on Syria (manipulated by apparatchiks of the deep state apparatus hellbent on starting WW3) looms far larger in my mind and heart. It’s a pathetic, probably doomed world we live in, given all that has been said and done in the past 24 hours. Perhaps after some inevitable clarifying, a remnant of hope will return but madness certainly prevails at the moment. Sorry to stray off-topic. I’m over and out for awhile.”
    Thanks for the reality check. Sure puts FATCA, amongst other issues, into perspective.
    As for going “over and out for awhile”, I highly recommend it. My excommunication from the Isaac Brock Society, though initially causing despair, has actually been quite positive. Dialoguing with Wag over at the Hill (thanks for your thumbs up) and seeing some of my comments disappear, had me in a state of anger I’ve not been in for some time. Stepping away from the keyboard, and the constant stream of bad news we find ourselves subjected to in our digital world, not to mention the endless FATCA conversations and the ‘Wags’, can only be good for one’s mental health . Spring is here. Maybe get outside and take a walk. That is what Elsie the dog and I are going to do right now. Take care Embee, ghost of WhiteKat.

    1. I’m still trying to sort out the latest tangle in the world’s relentless race to chaos. It’s mind boggling how someone can do a 180 degree turn in almost a matter of hours. The truth is out there but just as you approach it someone always seems to dump a big stinking pile of deception over top of it. Don’t know why it is I keep trying.
      About the “Wag” … do you ever wonder if the pro-FATCA faction have a set-up like the Israeli government’s paid online propagandists? The compliance condors, in particular, want to keep milking the FATCA cow. Then again, there really are people out there who are as dense as him/her.
      I did a double walk yesterday in mostly sunshine but today looked more like Christmas than Easter time. (It’s melting fast though.) I know you and Elsie enjoyed the day … dogs have a way of making that happen.

    2. @Embee, re: your comment on truth and Wags.
      When non-sympathizers of the FATCA witch hunt suggest we are “whiners” who are merely “inconvenienced”, as a Canadian living in Canada, a part of me sometimes feels like I agree. As nononymous and others often suggest at IBS, as long as we don’t stand up and say “here I am” to our Canadian financial institutions, so far at least, we don’t appear to have a lot to fear. But that’s false assurance. What scares me the most is not FATCA itself, but what it represents. The suppression of truth. The hidden agendas. The disrespect for human rights. The short-term thinking that has so quickly gotten humanity to the point of near self annihilation. Mother Nature screwed up big time when we came along. So smart with our big brains, yet so stupid. Perhaps we’re overdue for a reset. 🙁 Time for another walk with Elsie the Dog.

    1. Thanks EmBee.

      You are correct.  I refuse to go to a U.S. Consulate.  I do have a copy of my 1973 renunciation oath from my Canadian citizenship file  

      I have no idea why the author said I renounced because of FATCA. SHE does not know me and did not contact me.

      I would love to correct her but the only contact info is on Twitter and I don’t want to get into it there.

    2. @ Lynne
      Maybe she extrapolated incorrectly from the Forbes article she cites which called you a “former U.S. citizen” which you are, just not one with a CLN. I wouldn’t go into a U.S. Consulate either. It was bad enough pacing on the outside waiting for my husband to emerge after his relinquishment interview. We’re all all-Canadian — me by birth, he by CLN and you by solemn oath.

    3. I tweeted her that there was incorrect info.  She gave me her e-mail and I sent her a message with the correct information.

  40. can anyone tell me if they are able to cross US border by car with Cdn passport that says born in USA? Are they strict about it? Or have things changed since Trump in office? i read some are warned.. but are people being denied entrance? I became Cdn citizen 1974.

    1. @Samuel
      I don’t think I have heard more than one or two being denied entry and if memory serves, there were additional aspects, not just having a US birthplace on CDN passport. Of course, the great irony here is if they really believe you are a US citizen they CANNOT deny entry. I was told that by the vice-consul when I renounced my citizenship. Lots of people report being warned.
      I am presuming you do not have a CLN?

  41. Having missed finding out about an information session offered in Comox, October 2017, I am wondering whether any other sessions will be offered in Canada in 2018 for non-resident US dual citizens trying to comply with US tax bureaucracy? Willing to travel across the country to get help! Overwhelmed by where to start.

    1. @D. Koppel
      Sorry to hear you were unaware of the session and thank you for asking about the meetings.
      Other than London UK for March 7, no specific dates/places have been chosen.
      In the meantime, there is a lot of information available here and at isaacbrocksociety.ca
      If you like, I can steer you toward what might help if you give me some idea of your situation. If you don’t want it public, feel free to send me an email at nobledreamer16 at gmail dot com

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