Solving the Problem of U.S. Citizenship 
(UPDATED)
Uncle Sam wants up to 1 million Canadians. Actually, he doesn’t want them. He just wants their money and information about their legal Canadian bank, credit union and other accounts.
U.S. Treasury and Internal Revenue Service (IRS) insist they have they right to know all about the banking and other financial accounts of these Canadians simply because they were born in the United States, worked in the U.S. under a Green Card or have some other bizarre connection to United States. This includes joint accounts held with Canadian-born spouses, family or business partners.
Most are Canadian citizens—some for their entire lives or decades.
Canadian banks are spending up to $100 million each to comply with Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) to provide information to IRS on “US persons” among their customers—even though this violates Canadian banking, privacy and human rights laws.
Finance Minister Jim Flaherty has called FATCA “extraterratorial” and “unwarranted.” Yet, the Canadian government is negotiating an Intergovernmental Agreement with the United States in secret while keeping Canadians in the dark about whether their rights under Canada’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms will be sacrificed for a foreign government’s demands. An agreement has now been signed!
Many Canadians have lived this nightmare for over two years. Others are just becoming aware due to recent media coverage.
An information session “Solving the Problem of US Citizenship” will be held in the Room Change: Martha Bishop Room at Landon Branch Library, 167 Wortley Road, Saturday February 8, starting at 1:00 p.m. featuring Toronto lawyer John Richardson. Space is limited. $20 to cover costs.
Before you panic or rush to a U.S. tax accountant or lawyer, come and learn about your rights and options. Check out information in advance at citizenshipsolutions.ca
If you’re in the London area, we hope to see you there! If you’re planning to attend, please e-mail me at maplesandbox dot ca
I am interested in attending the London meeting on Sat. Feb. 8th. Is there any other information that I may need to be aware of ?
@PJ: Do you mean other information about the meeting or other information about this whole IRS-FATCA-FBAR mess?
I would like to attend the Saturday session.
That’s great Marie. Hope to see you there. Unfortunately, the room only holds 35 people. John and I thought that would be big enough when we booked the room, but with the announcement this week, I’m concerned.
Unfortunately, there were not many rooms available for this week. One location told me it is the Saturday before Valentine’s Day when meeting rooms are always booked well in advance. Who knew?!?
See you there. Best advice: Arrive early!
Will info from these sessions be posted anywhere? I’m from Nova Scotia, so will not be able to attend. My brother and I were both born in the US to Canadian parents who registered us as Canadians born abroad. I’m starting to panic while my brother just wants to tell the US where they can shove their FATCA! I’m very glad I have found this forum.
For privacy of attendees, the facilitator is not allowing audio or video taping. I will make notes and post the information.
It may take me a day or two after the sessions to get the info up.
In the meantime, learn all you can by reading here, at Brock and at citizenshipsolutions.ca
Here is a post from the lawyer who operates Citizenship Solutions. What You Should Consider Before You Contact A Lawyer. He is the lawyer who is presenting these information sessions.
I like your brother’s attitude, but I also understand your fear. We’ve all been there in our OMG time.
I’m glad you found this forum too. You are among friends here.
@laustinsmith – welcome! I wish I could have your brother’s attitude, but I’m afraid I live with a low-level ball of dread pressing on my heart. As of yesterday, the ball became a lot heavier. The only thing that makes all this manageable, are the people here, and all around the world, united in fighting this travesty.
Blaze
Can the lawyer confirm the situation with regard to Credit union not be subject to regulation.
Blaze
Can the lawyer confirm the situation with regard to Credit union not be subject to regulation?
Can the Lawyer confirm if filling a false W8ben is subject to judicial penalty in Canada? Can USA extradite when there is no USA assets involved and there is a tough question about a green card thrown out 34 years ago?
My father left the income from his estate to his 2nd wife. After she dies there are a number of benefactor one of the eventual benefactor has married an American and moved down to n US may be Green Card, The entity is already American. I may just allocate my share to a charity just to avoid problems. I am fully hidden except for this problem. Please note I am a Ayn Rand type Capitalist (except for that nonsense about Gold) but I am a minimal materialist..
Blaze has the Canadian Civil Liberties Association been contacted.
Blaze has the Canadian Civil Liberties Association been contacted?
Wish there could be a meeting like this in northern Ontario, say in North Bay, or Sudbury!
Yes CCLA has been contacted. I am waiting to hear from them how or if they will become involved.
I will advise John of the interest in Sudbury. There has also been interest expressed for Nova Scotia, Alberta and elsewhere.
John is becoming a very busy man. I will see what he might be able to do to spread the word as thoroughly, widely and effectively as possible.
Blaze
Is anybody looking at a Supreme Court injunction to stop procedure.
George3: I will ask the lawyer at the information session tomorrow if that is possible. The list keeps growing.
Maybe I am wrong, but CCLA and ACLU types that I have known in my life have come across to me as people who would genuflect at the mention of Obama’s name.
If I am right, I wonder how they would feel about being at odds with their ideological soul mate. After all, Obama signed that FATCA crap into law.
Of course, I could be entirely wrong about them. I hope that I am, but I am not convinced………not yet anyway.
Any answers?
John did not know the answer to the question about a 34 year old Green card.
He did not disagree, however, with my non-legal practical suggestion that the IRS has no interest in you, now way of knowing about you and no way of finding you.
You would not be extradited for this.
John is not aware of any way we could pursue a Supreme Court injunction.
Credit unions not exempt from FATCA if they meet the standard in terms of assets (over $175 million) and other criteria. Each person would need to check with their own credit unions.
I know my credit union plans to comply, but they do not have any information on my place of birth–dand will not be getting it. Someone posted at Brock that Desjardins will comply but Aterna will not. I don’t know about other credit unions.
I will try to do a synposis of the session within the next couple of days.
Alterna has well over 175 million in assets. Why would they not be complying?
I don’t know. I think that was what someone posted at Brock a few days ago. It might have been posted by Schubert or Joe Smith, but I’m not certain of that.
In fact, I think I’m beginning to lose my mind at the amount of information we are all absorbing.
I posted something about Alterna Savings more than a year ago, maybe even two years ago, when I got a reply to an email saying that (at that time) they had a legal opinion that they didn’t need to comply, and wouldn’t. However that was then, this is now, I haven’t heard any more, and at this stage I’m not interested in following up with them. I have other fish I want to fry right now. Sorry.
I suspect Alterna, which I am sure is well over $175 million, will have to comply. How diligently they’ll do that (or anyone else will for that matter) remains to be seen … Whether and how IRS or CRA have the resources, time, and inclination to audit all Canadians financial institutions, never mind (in IRS’ case) worldwide, is a whole ‘nother story. Which has good and bad points. Touched on above on the whole question of due process and giving account holders a) reasonable notice their accounts are about to be reported, b) on what basis their accounts are deemed reportable, and c) a reasonable chance to contest that reporting BEFORE IT HAPPENS with appropriate documentation, if they can. IMO that should be done by CRA not by hundreds of institutions using their own processes, guidelines, employees however well-informed or well-trained (or not). I will be sending a screed on these points to Flaherty, opposition parties, and CCLA later today. I urge everyone else to do likewise.
There is all kind of h****s**t in the agreement and documentation about “due diligence” to meet what the IRS wants and thinks it needs. What about due diligence to respect the rights our citizens and residents have to due process under Section 8 of the Charter (quite apart from discrimination under Section 15). Canada would never extradite anyone to the US without a court hearing and an opportunity for the person and a lawyer to examine the basis for the warrant and to contest it. Having your finances gutted or facing possible jail time in the US for tax evasion if you don’t comply and then cross the US border, because of an incorrect or inappropriate reporting of your information, is just as bad and demands due process IN CANADA before being exposed to whatever “due process” the IRS has for contesting this crap in the US.
The Revenue rule protect you from courts collecting taxes from a foreign source I assume the same would apply to a w8-ben that may be in error as it is an IRS form
Arctic Grayling, it might be worth giving them another look:
They are holding this free privacy and civil liberties even in Toronto – with a researcher presenting on FATCA on the second day http://ccla.org/home/pathways2privacy/
also,
a representative of the CCLA came to the first IsaacBrockSociety information session
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/12/28/fatca-fact-finding-forum-part-3-of-9-fatca-privacy-rights-issues-abby-deshman/
and they have a strong statement on their website:
http://ccla.org/2012/12/04/ccla-registers-privacy-concerns-over-ongoing-canada-u-s-information-exchange-negotiations/
and wrote to the Department of Finance to register objections to a FATCA IGA
http://ccla.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/2012-12-04-Letter-to-Dpt-of-Finance.pdf
and in the US, the ACLU are resisting and making legal challenges to many of the actions of the US government.
ex.
https://www.aclu.org/time-rein-surveillance-state-0
https://www.aclu.org/blog/map