37 thoughts on “Canadian Info & Resources

  1. gary1968

    I was just requested by TD Waterhouse to sign their IRS Waiver, which I refused. Doing so would acknowledge that I was a US person in the eyes of the IRS?
    Bio; born 1946 in US to US parents, moved to Canada in 1955-56.
    became a Canadian citizen in 1968. Have no known US interests, ie stocks, US banks etc. Travel to US for short periods once a year.
    Trying to sort out my options. Over the last week I have read a lot of articles. It seems that since I was pre 1986 I should relinquish US citizenship or do I need to? – Gary

  2. Schubert

    @Heather if you’re still watching this thread, and further to Duke of Devon’s comment:

    Sadly, if you were born a dual citizen, the only way you likely could claim a pre-2004 relinquishment would be if before 2004 (but while over the age of 18) you swore a formal oath of allegiance to Canada (the second point of the seven in the list) or (fourth item in the list) if you worked in ANY capacity as an employee of the Government of Canada, the government of one of the provinces, or arguably (this isn’t clear to me) a Canadian municipal government (issue is whether a municipality is a “subsidiary government” of Canada or of the province instead, if it’s a subsidiary government of Canada — as a province is — then municipal employment is a relinquishing act, otherwise maybe no). Or if you served in Canadian Forces as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer.

    In order to get a CLN (see below) based on any of the above, you would have to complete and (before a US consular officer) swear to State Department form 4079 (which is designed to establish whether after committing your expatriating act you did anything that could contradict or refute your claim to having intended to lose US citizenship).

    You can always renounce your US citizenship, but that doesn’t get you off the IRS filing requirements and possible exit tax (since your renunciation would be in 2014 or later, depending on the wait lists). Relinquishment before 2004 does get you off the IRS filing issues, as far as I know.

    I’m not a lawyer and this isn’t legal advice, though.

    Arguably the best hope for avoiding FATCA reporting of your financial information is if Ginny and Gwen (whose history matches yours) win their court case against the Canadian government’s signing of the intergovernmental agreement with the US re FATCA. Please read the threads relating to the ADCS legal challenge and consider contributing to the fund established to help pay the legal costs of this action.

    However if you get a Certificate of Loss of Nationality of the United States (aka CLN) due to a relinquishment or renunciation, your financial information is not reportable under FATCA. Whether you’d be able to get a CLN, even through a renunciation, before your bank figures out you were born in the US (if they can find that out) and has to report your information, is an open question at this point, given the time delays being experienced in getting CLNs now and given the banks have to start reporting next summer (I think) if not sooner. The court case might be a better bet, or not, depending on how long that will take (probably longer than it will take to get a CLN if you started that process asap).

    Best of luck. Cases of duals-at-birth who haven’t lived in the US or considered themselves to be or acted as US citizens in adulthood are IMO the most outrageous and saddest cases in this whole mess; you have my sympathy for all the good it will do you.

  3. Duke of Devon

    Heather, Go here:http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2011/12/12/relinquish-dont-renounce-if-you-can/
    You will see that there are 7 ways to lose US citizenship. Most don’t help you. For those who are lucky enough to have performed an ‘expatriating act’ before 2004 there is a general consensus that filing tax returns or FBARs is not required even tho one would be told by the consular officials, when obtaining a CLN, that they are supposed to ‘contact’ the IRS.
    More detail here:

  4. Lynne Swanson

    @Smoo:  I moved your posts over to the Relinquish and Renounce thread where I hope they will get more attention and suggestions.

  5. Lynne Swanson

    Smoo:  Yes, the fact you were a minor when you became a Canadian citizen does mean the US may deny you a CLN from the date you became a Canadian citizen.

    Outraged is in a similar situation to you, but she was 16 and made a decision independent of her family to become a Canadian citizen. She has not yet applied for her CLN, so we don’t know what the decsion will be.

    Also, under American law at the time you reached adulthood, there was a requirement for you to actually claim US citizenship by a certain age. I don’t know the specifics of that, so I hope Outraged, Pacifica or someone else may be able to respond to that.

    Have you ever worked for federal, provincial or municipal governments in Canada since you became an adult?  That may help.


  6. smoo

    Hello, I’m new to this. Found out I may have a problem when traveling through USA last year. They asked where my American Passport was. I don’t have one. So here is my situation wondering if anyone is in this boat. I moved to Canada in 1965 when I was 5 years old, when I was 12 the whole family took out Canadian citizenship. I have only visited the US about 6 times since to see relatives. I thought the US government should give me a CLN for the date I became Canadian. When I enquired at the consulate in Calgary, they said since I became a Canadian before I was 18 they would not consider that as an expatiating act. I do not have a social security number or anything else that attaches me to the US except a birth certificate. If what they are saying is true I would have to denounce and go through the whole tax nightmare. I’m in the planning for retirement stage and not wanting to enter the how do deal with the IRS stage of life. Ive spent 50 years thinking I was just Canadian. Has anyone else had this situation? Any suggestions?

  7. OutragedCanadian Post author

    @Michael, CAN Canada protect herself from bullies? Absolutely. Canada has stood up to bullies in the past. However, this particular Canadian government seems intent on ceding it’s powers to a foreign government. All the work over the years to become a voice for human rights, all the years to ensure Canada is seen as an independent nation, not a US territory, is close to going down the tubes due to the cowardice of politicians who are submitting to financial blackmail as the easy way out. If I sound a little bitter, it’s because I am. While I am committed to this fight, it outrages me that it’s necessary.

  8. Lynne Swanson

    @Michael:  Welcome to Sandbox.

    The Canadian government could and should protect itself and its citizens from a foreign bully.  The Harper government is choosing not to and is calling us “Americans abiding here in Canada” in the House of Commons.  One also announced at Finance Committee that US Treasury has told our elected officials “Congress has spoken.”

    In your own situation, when did you become a Canadian citizen?  If it was pre-2004, you may have no obligation to file back tax returns.


  9. Michael

    I feel like I am being held hostage by the Big Bully USA. I thought my US citizenship was gone once I became a Canadian. now I am spending a small fortune doing US back taxes. Can’t the Canadian government protect itself from bullies ?

  10. Divine Traveller

    I’ve been looking for persons who have renounced citizenship in the Vancouver and area but with no luck finding anyone. And looking for a legal service that I need to ask about 5 questions on the form one needs to make an appt to renounce. It would take 5 minutes.

    Anyone can give me any information on both or either I’d greatly appreciate it.

    1. Pacifica777

      Hi Divine Traveller,

      There’s about 25 pages of Vancouverites’ reports on their experiences in the Vancouver section of in the Consulate Report Directory. http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/consulate2/

      As you’ll see, Vancouver used to be a real pain. However, they revised their procedure about six months ago and it seems to be going quite well there since then.

      When you e-mail Vancouver, they’ll reply with an e-mail letting you know the specific forms and documents required and their specific booking procedure. (Much of this is pretty standard, but a few things vary from place to place.)

      As for questions you have, this is a great place to ask them. They’re likely questions others have dealt with and people who’ve done this already are most happy to help.

  11. Blaze

    @LM: Outraged can post the letter when it is finalized. However, there is a bit of information in there which is not quite accurate. I will contact you regarding this through Outraged.

  12. LM

    HI Maplesandbox,
    Along with several folks from IBS, I have just pulled together a one-page letter that I plan to snail or email (along with a FATCA Fact Sheet) to as many US-Born Canadians as I can locate (we already have a number of addresses, more need to be found – – I’m working on that).
    Would you be interested in seeing the letter? I would be happy to have it posted if anyone else wants to use it (or use it as a format) for direct-mailing advertising on the FATCA issue. Please advise whether interested and how to do this. Thanks


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