“All Roads Lead To Renunciation” – #FATCA Same Country Exemption Edition

cross-posted from isaacbrocksociety.ca
by USCitizenAbroad

You can read it at the Americans Citizens Abroad site.

Highlights include:


In denying the request for SCE, the Treasury Department’s final FATCA regulations focused solely on the risk of US tax avoidance. “The Treasury Department and the IRS have also decided that the risk of U.S. tax avoidance by a U.S. taxpayer holding an account with an FFI exists regardless of whether the U.S. taxpayer holds an account in his or her foreign country of residence or another foreign country.”  The regulations say nothing about the problem of lock-out.  They fix only on the unquantified and un-weighted risk that what must be a  relatively small population of US taxpayers residing in a foreign country and banking at their local bank might evade US tax.  The regulations do not say whether, and, if so, to what extent, Treasury Department took into consideration the widely-admitted fact that FATCA continues to put the community of 8 million Americans overseas at risk of lock-out from access to financial accounts needed for the management of basic living expenses (paying bills, paying rent, receiving paychecks).

The problem of foreign financial account lock-out exists, and it has been proven that the FATCA rules are one of the root causes.  The Congressional Americans Abroad Caucus, the National Taxpayer Advocate, and ACA, as well as other overseas organizations, have testified to the existence of the problem and have asked for redress by the adoption of SCE.  ACA believes that Treasury Department either missed the point or failed reasonably to balance the considerations.


No, the administration of Barack Obama did NOT miss the point. The point is a simple one:



Unfortunately it’s the proponents of the FATCA Same Country Exemption Proposal  who are missing the point!

It’s simple: “All Roads Lead To Renunciation”.

Renounce and rejoice!


Great article on this here Brock gets a mention (and link to earlier one)

‘Final indignity’ Among the places expats turned to vent their anger on Wednesday, as the news about the Same Country Exemption came out, was the Isaac Brock Society website, where a regular blogger who goes by the name USCitizenAbroad referred to the decision as the “final indignity perpetrated by…Barack Obama”. The Isaac Brock Society is a Canadian website that was founded in 2011 by a number of Canadian-Americans who were fed up with the way FATCA and other relatively new US laws aimed at curtailing tax evasion were costing them money and causing them problems. President Obama had signed FATCA into law in March, 2010, in the wake of the global financial crisis.


15 thoughts on ““All Roads Lead To Renunciation” – #FATCA Same Country Exemption Edition

  1. WhiteKat

    @ Lynne. re: “I would never own a gun because brother was shot and killed by the boy next door when he was eleven and I was nine.”

    That is horrible. How unimaginably traumatizing that must have been for you and your family. Dear lord I sure did a bad job at trying to be funny! I would never own a gun either and very happy that Canadian gun laws are not like the US. So sorry Lynne, to bring up a subject, especially on your website, that no doubt triggers bad memories. 🙁

    1. Lynne Swanson

      I knew your comment was satire and i was not offended.

      Gun control has long been an issue in my family.  It was 1959 when my brother was killed.  The boy next door showed my brother his father’s gun.  He didn’t think it was loaded and pulled the trigger.

      i have never understood the American focus on the right to bear arms.  If Sandy Hook didn’t wake them up, nothing ever will.

  2. WhiteKat

    @Lynne re: ” But the U.S. abusive spouse continues to stalk, harass, intimidate and attempt to control even after the divorce. ”

    I got it this time!

    So, that is when you go to the police (Canadian government) and ask for a restraining order (an end to the FATCA abuse).

    But the police tell you that you are imagining the abuse and refuse your pleas for help!

    Now you are really scared. You decide to buy a gun for protection. Meanwhile the obsessed ex is becoming more and more threatening, calling all the time, and sending endless emails and texts: “I’ll never let you go, you cheater”, “you owe me money” and on and on.

    The stress and fear continue to build in you, so one night you drink an entire bottle of Merlot, just to forget for awhile, but instead of passing out, you get really angry. For a moment, you consider suing the police for failing to protect you, but in your drunken rage you convince yourself that the cops are probably in bed with the judges anyway, so why bother. You continue to work yourself into a frenzy imagining there will be no end to the stalking and harassment unless you take matters into your own hands.

    But how? What to do?

    A light-bulb goes off somewhere deep within your foggy, barely conscious mind. The gun you bought! May as well put it to good use. But you never drink and drive. So you call Uber and get a ride to the crazy ex’s house. You still have a key, from when you used to live with him, which you have tucked into your purse.

    It’s just past midnight. The stalker’s car is in his driveway. His house is dark. You know he has to work in the morning and will be in bed by now. He is vulnerable.

    And you, you are powerful with your gun hidden in your purse and your liquid courage. Hands shake with anticipation and intoxication as your fingers brush past the cold, hard piece of metal, loaded and ready to go, while fumbling through your purse for the key caught up somewhere in the mess at the bottom. Your searching, sweaty fingers finally catch hold of it, but as you strain to see the keyhole in the dark, it slips from your grasp and falls to the ground. You curse under your breath, bending ungracefully onto your knees to feel around in the dark. Got it!

    This time you won’t miss. You get your phone out of your purse and use the light to see the keyhole. The lock turns. You open the door and take a few tentative steps into the dark, silent entrance-way, tightly clutching your purse containing the surprise you have for your ex. Your eyes have not yet adjusted to the shadowy surroundings. Typical of him. Too cheap to leave even a single light on in the place. This is as far as you get before you hear the snarling and growling which sounds like it is coming from everywhere. Apparently in all those emails, texts and phone calls, your ex never mentioned that he had acquired two pit bulls.

    The end.

    1. WhiteKat

      I hope that attempt at humour didn’t sound too out there. Just trying to destress with a little comic relief. Felt better after I wrote it.

      Sometimes we just have to laugh at how crazy this all is. As someone with two Canadian parents, having lived in Canada since toddler-age, in all those years growing up, working, raising a family, saving for retirement, and being a law abiding citizen, I would never have dreamed that my own Canadian government would turn its back on me the way that it has. Innocence lost.

    2. Lynne Swanson

      I don’t drink.  I would never own a gun because brother was shot and killed by the boy next door when he was eleven and I was nine.

      Restraining orders don’t work. Abusers ignore them.  Plus, so far, Canada will not even issue one.  Instead, they support the foreign abuser over Canadian citizens like you and me.

      So I moved.  After 32 years at the same bank, I moved to a much nicer home at a local credit union.  They made it clear they have no interest in knowing where I was born.  They will not tell the abuser where to find me. That allows me to get on with my life in peace.

      I am counting on my friends Ginny, Gwen, Kazia and Joe to stop the stalking.  I just wish the courts would move quickly to stop the abuse.


  3. WhiteKat

    This comment, actually more of a question, is off topic to this post, but there is not really an appropriate spot for it, so here goes. Regarding the TBT proposal which has been discussed in great length over at IBS, I have not noticed anyone talking about FBARs.

    Do FBARs disappear with TBT? (For that matter do FBARs disappear with CBT?) If the answer is no, then most ‘Americans abroad’ would still be in the penalty box. Really curious about this, but not allowed to participate at Brock, so am hoping someone in the know will come on over to Maple Sandbox and clarify if that’s even possible, or perhaps will post this question at IBS on my behalf.

  4. WhiteKat

    @Lynne, Just an aside, but have you noticed at this site that the nesting of replies to comments doesn’t quite work properly? Sometimes when you reply to a comment it ends up at the top of the list of comments rather than nested under the comment you replied to.

    Anyway, regarding your latest comment: “But the U.S. abusive spouse continues to stalk, harass, intimidate and attempt to control even after the divorce”, the comment I made in response (where the nesting did not work as expected) feels like it was off track of the point you were trying to make. Perhaps I had too much dinner last night…yeah that must be it.

    One thing I got from your words (I think), is that there are no guarantees when dealing with a narcissist. No matter what they say, no matter what you think you have both agreed upon, they are likely to do a 180 if it suits their purposes, and will pull the rug out from under you if they think they can get away with it.

    Sounds a lot like both the US and Canadian governments. Unfortunately we are stuck with at least one of them. Lets hope Ginny, Gwen and Kazia can force the Canadian government to live up to its promise to protect the rights of all Canadians, including those who the USA claims as its own.

  5. WhiteKat

    A further thought regarding viewing the USA as being like a spouse whose narcissistic tendencies are high on the continuum. No matter what you do you can’t fix your narcissistic spouse at a soul level. And you’re fooling yourself if you think that they can change themself other than at a superficial level. Similarly, even if citizenship based taxation was gone tomorrow, the USA is like that immutable spouse, forever self-focused, power and control hungry. The only safe choice for ‘US persons’ living outside USA is to no longer be a ‘US person’, much like the only healthy choice for people living with a narcissistic partner is to leave.

    1. WhiteKat

      “But the U.S. abusive spouse continues to stalk, harass, intimidate and attempt to control even after the divorce.”

      Then you are not really divorced(sorry you didn’t do it right), according to the slave owners – i.e. the US government and the Canadian government which agrees with the higher (USA) power.

      Slaves are never free as long as they believe their freedom is not their own choice.

      RBT is not freedom, not that those hoping for it won’t ever see it, hope they do.

      Sigh…think I got your point Lynne. As long as we have to beg for our human rights, Canadian government or USA, we are stuck with that narcissitic partner. There feels like no escape, and no hope….

      But then you just decide. You are done. End of story. Finished. And you switch channels. Cause YOU cannot change the world. But you can decide which channels to tune into. And on it goes.

  6. WhiteKat

    Dealing with the USA as a ‘US person’ living outside USA, is like relating to an estranged spouse with a severe empathy deficiency. You can try to plead and reason, communicate and connect with, or you can file for divorce.

    1. Lynne Swanson

      But the U.S. abusive spouse continues to stalk, harass, intimidate and attempt to control even after the divorce. 

  7. Mark Twain

    When I do a search of this quote (which ACA has placed in quotes without attribution)(searching by whole or by parts) I find nothing.
    “The Treasury Department and the IRS have also decided that the risk of U.S. tax avoidance by a U.S. taxpayer holding an account with an FFI exists regardless of whether the U.S. taxpayer holds an account in his or her foreign country of residence or another foreign country.”

    When I search for “Final FATCA regulations” I don’t find any recent documents, I find “Final Regulations” from 2013.

    Has the treasury department been confirmed to have addressed SCE?

    Is this ACA release #RealNews ?

  8. WhiteKat

    “It’s simple: “All Roads Lead To Renunciation”.Renounce and rejoice!”

    Sounds simple. And for those who don’t want to be ‘US persons’, this is the obvious path to take. Except it is not, because USA has put impossibly high road blocks along the way to becoming a ‘non-US person.’

    So many ‘US persons’ are focussing on getting rid of the inequities associated with being a ‘US person’ (mostly FATCA and CBT currently). Why are ‘US persons’ not focussing more on finding ways to help people rid themselves of the curse of ‘US personhood’ – the root of the problem in my opinion, or at least for those of us who do not want dual citizenship with the USA?

    No US personhood = no US personhood related inequities (no CBT, no FBAR, no FATCA, no forced participation in unethical wars, and who knows what else in future).

    In a sense, the Canadian FATCA IGA lawsuit is an attempt to rid Canadians of ‘US personhood’, but its scope is limited in that it applies only to Canadians deemed ‘US persons’, and only while such Canadian ‘US persons’ remain on Canadian soil.

    Perhaps ‘US persons’ who would love to be able to SIMPLY “renounce and rejoice”, can find a way to come together as a group, through the assistance of the individual governments of the countries they actually live in, to encourage the USA to bestow ‘non-US personhood’ on those who wish not to be a ‘US person’.

    As a group of non-US person wannabees, we could say: “Hey USA, as people who have fully adopted our countries of residence (some of us have never been ‘American’ in any meaningful sense), we want NOT to be ‘US PERSONS’. So here is the deal, let us go without a lot of fanfare (i.e. reporting complications and $$$) and you can keep your unique to the world, counter-intuitive CBT and your FATCA too if you insist, not that we support these outlandish US laws. Just please don’t force us to be ‘US persons’ anymore. Thank you from the bottom of our hearts as people whose home is not USA.”


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