U.S, Citizenship: Psychological Benefit or Nightmare?

In Tax Connections, Michael DeBlis asks Are the Psychological Benefits of U.S. Citizenship An Adequate Justification For The Worldwide Taxation of Nonresident U.S. Citizens?

He reports that Professor Michael J Kirsch claims:

“it is reasonable to conclude that the retention of U.S. citizenship reflects a self-identification with the population of the United States (or the belief that the benefits of citizenship are worth the tax cost).”

Mr. DeBliss “respectfully disagrees.” So do many others who commented. I call it a “psychological nightmare” and call FATCA “financial and psychological terrorism.”

What do you think? Michael Bliss wants to hear from us so please share your comments there as well as here.

11 thoughts on “U.S, Citizenship: Psychological Benefit or Nightmare?

  1. Lynne Swanson Post author

    Michael DeBlis has provided an UPDATE TO COMMENTS – Are the Psychological Benefits of U.S. Citizenship An Adequate Justification For The Worldwide Taxation of Nonresident U.S. Citizens?

    That update includes a link to his post Is The Justification For The United States’ System of Worldwide Taxation A Hoax? – Part I

    Yes, Mr. DeBlis. It`s a hoax.

    Charl over at Brock and at Tax Connections is urging Mr. DeBlis to challenge the constitutionality of CBT. Reading his post, perhaps he is considering it.

    Reply
  2. Connie Kirby

    The US governmet was founded on freedom yet will not allow anyone they deem US citizens to live in another country without controling them by requiring one to file taxes. This is a controling act that allow the US to gather and keep information on you. Everyone’s freedom and rights are being violated by the US government.
    I am a Canadian, I do not believe in the US polies their war mongering attitude,guns and frankly do not understand how they think. Their arrogant attitude. I truly believe the problems in Iraq and that area has escalated directly due to the illigal invasion by Bush. Proven fact before invasion , no weapons of mass destruction and no involement of Iraq in 9-11 I want to warn every citizen to get involve in the new laws Harper is going to pass against terriost. We do not want the Patriot Act in Canada. This is a law in the US that takes away ALL citizens rights and is used against dual in other countries. We must defeat the Harper government. He is too controlled by the US government.

    Reply
  3. AnonAnon

    There has definitely has been a psychological attractiveness to U.S. citizenship for many people, especially those from poor countries who are lining up to get in. And for one born and raised there, as I was, it was a bit sad to relinquish U.S. citizenship when I became a Canadian citizen in the 1970s. But even at that time it wasn’t worth the compliance hassle to continue filing tax returns there just to prove I didn’t owe anything by their rules, and I had been disabused of the pro-U.S. propaganda that I was raised on.

    Now I have been living happily in Canada for almost 50 years, and the idea of holding U.S. citizenship, living there, or even visiting there for any length of time is psychologically repellent, not attractive, especially in view of their militarism, gun violence, and shoddy treatment of their expatriate citizens.

    Reply
  4. ArcticGrayling

    @ Pat….

    What is the bank or investment dealer going to do. Are they going to ask for birth certificates for all of us?

    They are just doing their “due diligence” as asked for by Obama and his gang. The IRS is not going to waste resources looking for people when those people are not going to owe them money. If the IRS came across the border looking, I would ignore them. They have no jurisdiction in Canada.

    I cheerfully lie. What I do in Canada is none of Obama’s business.

    To hell with them.

    Reply
  5. PatCanadian

    I think that FATCA is a psychological nightmare. This psychological nightmare can be dealt with by resistance and by formally becoming a non US person (if possible depending on individual circumstances). It is outrageous that Canadian banks and investment firms are cooperating with the IRS in hunting down those who may have had some US connection but live and have citizenship here now.

    At present, I regard US citizenship as a former liability with no benefits. ArticGrayling you have unfortunately heard from a broker with FATCA questions. This prompts me to look into Vancity’s investment partner, Credential, as an option. Since changing from the big banks to credit unions which do not report for FATCA, I have as yet received no FATCA letter. A ways back, in speaking with a Credential investment manager, it seemed they were anti FATCA. We need to find investment options which are safe havens while the lawsuit is pending. This applies whether or not one has formally become a non US person through the State Department. It seems many are now receiving these privacy invading letters from their FI’s.

    Reply
  6. ArcticGrayling

    I have been overseas and have not been paying much attention to events here.

    I will be making another donation before the end of the month.

    An anecdote. My broker/investment dealer emailed me a link to update my profile. In it are TWO questions.

    (1) Were you born in the US?
    (2) Are you a US person?

    The second question obviously is intended to snare those who were not born there, but have some other connection such as parentage, previous immigration and/or naturalization. Neither question contemplates a situation where somebody has renounced.

    So to question (2) I answered “no”. I have renounced. For question (1), I cheerfully lie because the profile questionnaire does not accommodate those who have renounced. They can take a flying leap. The question is unconstitutional anyway. Damn them to hell.

    Reply
  7. Lynne Swanson Post author

    I received the following e-mail from the CEO of Tax Connections.

    Thank you for your thoughts on FATCA article “Are the Psychological Benefits of U.S. Citizenship An Adequate Justification For The Worldwide Taxation of Nonresident U.S. Citizens?”. You will soon receive an invitation into http://www.taxconnections.com FATCA Community which Michael started at TaxConnections. TaxConnections is a media site of tax professionals interacting with taxpayers around the world. A FATCA Community has started and we welcome your ideas, thoughts and contributions to the TaxConnections FATCA Community. Our goal is to educate people and the policymakers the effect these laws are having on citizens. Please join us as you will be receiving an invitation. We welcome any submissions you make to this exciting community exchange.

    This could be interesting. But, I do not know if it will make a difference.
    All the best,
    Kat Jennings, CEO
    http://www.taxconnections.com
    858-999-0053 X100

    Reply

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