U.S.-born Canadian citizens, your bank knows that you were born in the U.S. because you provided this information, never IRS compliant, no meaningful history with U.S. except by birth in U.S., never U.S voting, never U.S. passport, never relinquished, but you must have a FATCA reportable account >U.S.$ 50,000
Reportable accounts can be, for example, non-registered investment accounts — but CANNOT be RRSP, RESP, RDSP, TFSA etc. registered accounts. We also seek witnesses who have accounts less than $50,000 U.S. but who know or suspect e.g. from a bank FATCA letter that their account info has inappropriately been turned over to CRA/IRS. You will describe your harm in a written affidavit which will be made public. If interested contact See our website at www.adcs-adsc-ca


  1. Canadians to save us from FATCA? Maybe says Nestman.
    Included in this article is:

    Due to the operation of the US-Canada IGA, these dual citizens have fewer privacy rights than citizens living there with only Canadian nationality.
    Not surprisingly, this discrimination makes dual US-Canadian citizens hopping mad.

    Please donate to “Save us from FATCA.” And, wouldn’t it be wonderful someone like Nestman and their clients would help that hapen?!?

  2. This is just one Canadian’s comment in a recent Globe article regarding the upcoming federal election, but the attitude is prevalent among Canadians which is why it is extremely important (imho) to try REALLY hard not to promote any thought of ourselves (meaning those of us who are Canadians living in Canada with ‘US person’ status) as American.
    I know it is difficult for Canadians who actually DO identify at least a little bit as American, and want to keep US citizenship, but we will NEVER get the support from fellow Canadians, nor the media attention we need, if we give any hint that we are ‘Americans living in Canada’. Anti-American sentiment is alive and well in Canadian society and growing stronger. The anti-Harper voters feel that Harper has sold Canada out to the USA and that is hardly going to make them dislike those tainted with US personhood any less.
    Stevie (a Canadian voter) comments:
    “Couple of days ago I was in a Tim Hortons and I heard a 50-something guy talking at a goodly volume to a 20-something Tims guy behind the counter, “So are you going to vote in the American election too ? – (answer) Yep – ( response) Yea, me too, and I sure hope Kansas beats Toronto in the next ball game, a bunch of us are watching the game at my place to root for KC, come on over if you’d like to join us.” There’s over 3 MILLION dual citizen Americans who vote here, own, control, and run everything in Canada for their benefit, and the demise of Canada. THAT’S what’s wrong with Canada !”

    1. And even scarier is our own elected Canadian officials calling us “American citizens abiding here in Canada” and declaring  “Congress has spoken.”

      Vote Canadian. And Go Jays!


    2. Well, there are people out there who truly see themselves as dual citizens. For many thousands of us, though, that is not the case. I am Canadian. period, exclamation mark. I will be voting today in my one and only country’s election.

    3. Excellent food for thought.
      I am not a *homelander* since, as far as I’m concerned, March 25, 1975, when I became a Canadian and was warned at the time that I would thereby lose my US citizenship. It was, I considered, a deal.
      My CANADIAN ONLY vote was just cast.
      What will Canada be tomorrow?

  3. Will Justin Trudeau keep fighting Stephen Harper’s court battles?

    “A new government is going to have to step back and say: ‘Is this where we want to put our resources?’
    “What’s really offensive about it is how much money it costs to do this.”

    We need to lobby and hope Justin Trudeau and the Libs will come to their senses and stop fighting us. But until they do, we need to keep fighting, funding and donating.
    Because “what’s really offensive” is our government using our tax dollars to fight us on our rights as Canadians while we have to struggle to raise massive amounts to fight our own government to protect us from a foreign government.

  4. Please everyone get those letters in the mail. Here is the one I just mailed to my new Liberal MP. (I did not give background info on FATCA because I met with her before the campaign and communicated with her during the campaign.)

    November 2, 2015
    Ms. Kate Young
    Member of Parliament
    House of Commons
    Ottawa ON
    Dear Kate:
    Congratulations on your election as Member of Parliament for London West. I look forward to being represented by an MP who will listen and respond to her constituents.
    “A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian” (Justin Trudeau, Munk Debate, September 28, 2015)
    “The government of Canada has a responsibility to stand up for its citizens when foreign governments are encroaching on their rights. We believe that the deal reached between Canada and the U.S. is insufficient to protect affected Canadians.” (Justin Trudeau in attached June 25 letter to me).
    I appreciate the time you spent with me prior to the election to discuss the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) and the efforts you made to try to get a clear policy from the Liberal Party.
    Now that the Liberals and Team Trudeau have been elected with a majority government, I ask you and your colleagues to ensure “A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian” despite where we were born. The Government of Canada must “stand up for its citizens (and residents) when foreign governments are encroaching on their rights.”
    I now ask my elected Liberal government to do the right thing for one million Canadians by:
    1) taking immediate steps to seek a just resolution of the costly lawsuit forced upon innocent Canadian citizens;
    2) repealing the enabling legislation for the FATCA Intergovernmental Agreement entered into under threat of economic sanctions.
    3) informing the American government that Canadian rights, laws, constitution, Charter of Rights and Freedoms and sovereignty prevail over foreign law in Canada. Therefore, their FATCA will not be enforced in our free and democratic country.
    I look forward to working with you to resolve the FATCA nightmare that encroaches on my rights as a Canadian citizen.

    I will follow up and make an appointment to discuss this with you after your office is set up.
    Lynne Swanson

  5. I sent this e-mail to Emmanuel Dubourg (who I hope may become Minister of National Revenue or other Cabinet Minister:

    Congratulations on your reelection and on the election of a Liberal majority government.
    As an Opposition MP and Liberal National Revenue Critic, you spoke out against the American Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) being imposed on Canada and on Canadians.
    In the House of Commons on June 11, 2014, you said CRA “will do the dirty work of transmitting the information to the IRS…We are truly appalled by it, because doing this kind of thing to assist the Americans is not appropriate.”
    n a letter to me on June 25, 2015, our new Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, said: “The government of Canada has a responsibility to stand up for its citizens when foreign governments are encroaching on their rights. We believe that the deal reached between Canada and the U.S. is insufficient to protect affected Canadians.”
    Now that the Liberals have a majority government, I urge you and your colleagues to “stand up for (one mullion Canadians) when (a) foreign government (is) encroaching on their rights.”
    You and your colleagues can stop CRA from doing the “dirty work of transmitting information to the IRS” by:
    1) taking immediate steps to seek a just resolution of the costly lawsuit forced upon innocent Canadian citizens;
    2) repealing the enabling legislation for the FATCA Intergovernmental Agreement entered into under threat of economic sanctions.
    3) informing the American government that Canadian rights, laws, constitution, Charter of Rights and Freedoms and sovereignty prevail over foreign law in Canada. Therefore, their FATCA will not be enforced in our free, democratic and sovereign country.
    Please make this a priority for our new government.

    I sent similar e-mails to Scott Brison (Finance Critic) Ralph Goodale (Deputy Leader) and Marc Garneau (Foreign Affairs Critic) using quotes from them.
    As ACanadianLivingInCanada said to other Canadians living in Canada: BLAST THEM.

  6. In addition to the earlier letters and e-mails that I sent to several Liberal MPs, I sent letters today to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Minister of Finance Bill Morneau, Minister of Foreign Affairs Stephan Dion, Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship John McCallum and to President of Treasury Board Scott Brison.
    Everyone, it’s really important to get your letters in soon.

  7. That reduced invoice is a nice Christmas surprise.
    An even better surprise would be our new Liberal government ending this whole fiasco by settling the lawsuit and passing an amendment to the enabling law to ensure Canadian citizens and permanent residents living in Canada are excluded from any FATCA reporting.
    Until that happens, we need to keep on funding this lawsuit. Our regular elves are very weary and broke.
    We need new elves to step up and do their part.

  8. This weary elf will do my best to contribute in the next little bit, but yes, I’m broke and very tired. It’s time for the Liberals to do what the Conservatives failed to do – protect Canadian citizens and permanent residents.
    And, if there are any secret Santas out there willing to help the lawsuit along….

  9. I’ll be sending ADCS a Christmas greeting with some support to continue this effort.
    We’ve come too far to lose momentum now. That is what the US and the Canadian defendants are hoping Santa will bring them for Xmas.
    Deny the US its extortion of Canada and destruction of our Charter and Constitutional rights, and Canadian sovereignty and autonomy as a nation.
    Lets give them lumps of coal instead:
    Donate whatever you can, however small.

  10. Wishing all @ Maplesandbox the best of the holiday season. May we find peace in our hearts which banishes fear. Thank you for your support. All my best to you and yours.

    1. A very special thanks and Merry Christmas to you and Gwen.

      I hope both of you are able to have a FATCA free holiday season.

  11. As much as Justin and Jody talk about the Charter, it’s hard to understand why they are not willing to quickly settle this lawsuit.
    But the fight continues. Please donate especially if you have not already done so.
    I am willing to discuss with Joe Arvay the possibility of being a witness.

  12. If anyone is considering becoming a Witness in our trial and has any questions about the process, please feel free to ask an admin for my email address, and I would happy to talk to you about the ins and outs, risks and fun.
    It’s easier than you may be imagining. The qualifications and criteria are pretty straight forward and I can think of many who might fit the bill. If I can assist, please feel free to contact me.

    1. yes. it was up when I went off early this morning around 3 am but has been done since then.
      Problem IS being worked on.

    2. Hope it hasn’t been hacked. Likewise I hope this hasn’t added to the work you already do Trish. I am going to pretend it means so many donations are flooding in that the site has been overwhelmed. I can dream.

  13. So Justin has passed your communications on to Jody. Jody will likely pass on to Bill. Neither Jody nor Bill have responded to my communications to them. Nor have Scott, Diane or Emmanuel. The only Lib Cabinet Minister who has replied is Stephane–to tell me he passed my letter to Bill who has not replied. My Lib MP Kate passed my letter to her to Bill. Kate will follow this closely, but will not meet with me to discuss this until she knows what Bill will do. Bill is silent.
    We’ve been here before.

    1. @ Lynne
      From my post-election e-mails all I got was a reply from a “Departmental Correspondence Unit” (not kidding, that was how it was signed) which said my e-mail had been received and would be passed along to Bill. It wasn’t an auto-reply but close to it. We’ll see if Bill beats Joe’s record for tardy replies — 7 months.

  14. I just heard Stephan Dion on CBC announce that Canada will lift sanctions against Iran. Yet on FATCA, Dion passed my letter to Morneau. Morneau, Dion, Wilson-Raybould, Brison and the rest of the Fibbing Libs are silent on FATCA.

  15. OK, here’s a once in a lifetime offer available to any and all of you. Grab it now, it won’t happen again! You too can get in on it now if you act FAST!
    In anticipation of the crafty Ms. Swanson doing so, I am going to out myself right now so you can take advantage of this once in a lifetime opportunity! If by some chance, we get close but not finished fund raising by Feb.1st here’a DEAL FOR YOU!
    Feb.13 will mark two happy events for me. It’s the birthday where I enter a certain decade I didn’t think I’d see when I was a teenager since it sounded so old. Secondly, it represents 65 years of finally being brought back to my native country Canada where I have been on the right side of the river ever since age five.
    So in lieu of the dozen red flowers I know you really want to send me to honour my BIG day, what I’d really like is giving you this, did I mention ONCE IN A LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY?: to donate to our law suit for my birthday. Especially if you are a lurker reading here and have never donated.
    It’s a win win for all of us. I’d get to smile all day and you get to fill the thermometer right to the top!
    So as that handsome actor once said: MAKE MY DAY!!!! And best to you all. We can do this.

  16. Just donated $150. Good luck. You’re fighting for freedom, not just for Canada, but the world….and even for the US.

  17. Thanks Libetarian. That’s exactly what we are doing.
    Here is an article from the National Post about the challenges of Charter lawsuits.
    As this points out and as we well know, those challenges go beyond financial and include “government delay, document dumping, and excessive procedural manoeuvring during constitutional litigation.”
    That is certainly our experience. And a reflection of why we need to get this lawsuit funded.

  18. It has been noted that Bill Morneau and Finance are carrying this brief for the Government of Canada. I think this is a matter of framing. The Government would like to frame this as a finance issue, while we want to frame it as a Charter issue.

  19. I have just come upon a CBC website called “Go Public”, where the public can tell their story and it might be followed up by CBC. Is this a place for Gwen and Ginny’s story? See
    Mostly it has to do with consumer relations, but there is at least one instance of a complaint against Canada Post.

  20. Ginny, Gwen and ADCS are in an article in The Economist Border Babies v The IRS.
    Of course, Ginny and Gwen aren’t Border Babies. They are Accidental Americans. They also aren’t “transplanted Americans.” They are Canadians,
    One point the article got right. Ginny and Gwen are fighting back.

    1. Previous Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien makes a joke about being eligible to run for President because his father was BORN IN and spent the first 10 years of his life in New Hampshire. If Chretien senior was born in the US in New Hampshire, then (Wellie?/Willie?) Chretien was a US citizen. Is Jean Chretien a dual – Canadian citizen by birthplace and American via parentage?
      Is Chretien a dual by Canadian birth and potentially US parentage via his father? He seems to be saying that in his speech to the CABC.
      Does Chretien have a FATCA, FBAR, US extraterritorial CBT obligation?

    2. Very interesting twist. But doesn’t U.S. law require that a parent must have lived in the U.S. for five years after the age of 14 to pass on American citizenship to a child?


      I think the requirement is 10 years, five of which must be after age 14.  If Papa Cretien lived in U.S. for the first ten years of his life, that means he did not live there after the age of 14 and thus our former PM is thwarted in his drive to beat Donald Trump and become U.S. President.


      It would, however, be fascinating to know what he thinks of FATCA and the IRS. I suspect Papa was not compliant–making him an American tax cheat just like Ginny, Gwen and the rest of us.


      Would Cretien consider donating the remaining $8500 we need to fight the Fibbing Libs on FATCA?

    3. Here is a chart I hadn’t seen before, referring both to Nationality and Citizenship of Children Born in Wedlock Outside the US:
      Jean Chretien was born in 1934 before May 24, 1934, when he would acquire??? (rather than claim???) USC as either parent (HIS DAD) a USC and that USC parent resided in the U.S. (FOR NO SPECIFIED TIME PERIOD).

  21. I am so doing the happy dance tonight now that our bill has been paid in full. Gratitude to all donors and how fantastic for the last one who was able to wipe the slate clean in one very generous amount. Tomorrow, we continue the legal work seeking individual witnesses. I am so happy now that people can keep their money in their pockets where it belongs if it weren’t for FATCA and IGAs condemning us as tax cheats, second class citizens of any country where we live.
    Wild Horses couldn’t drive me away. That’s my theme song for tonight.
    Thank you everyone.
    This one’s for you, Blaze.

    1. Ginny and Friends across Canada and around the world:

      Thanks for your Help! in reaching our goal.   I do appreciate you being around!
      What an amazing group of people!  What an amazing accomplishment! 

      A special thanks to Stephen for everything he has done and is doing.  And, of course, to our mystery donor from the US who put us over the top with a very generous donation.

  22. Have a good luck, hopping that the criminals and traitors all over the world (top ranked government people and bankers) would be punished as criminals against mankind and against their countries sovereignity to the most severe degree can only be. From me, a small donator who became aware of fatca (DESPITE NOT BEING U.S. PERSON) since the bank (in my country) registerd me mistakenly as an american citizen.

    1. That is horrendous.  What did your bank do when they identified you as a U. S. Person? Did they report your accounts to the IRS?  Did they threaten to close your account?

      Did they give you the opportunity to confirm you are not an American citizen?

      Are you in Canada or in a different country?

      Thank you for donating and for posting here. 


    2. Firstly, i’m from ISRAEL – WHERE I WAS BORN. And right, That’s horrendous the situation i experienced : a situation in which you are threatened by the bank to fill w9 form and even really have no number of american passport/ social security/ greencard you can write on the same draconian form.
      And all is just because of one bank clerk registeed you mistakenly as an american citizen and then, no one in the big system (organizational one) wants to correct the mistake since they are so afraid to be caught (by IRS) as a bank which helps people evading the taxes “deserved” to USA. So, no one would like there to take the chance to correct the mistake EVEN AFTER AND DESPITE the banks supervisor guided banks to check whether someone is really american before writing american citizenship in the computerized data.
      I will tell you right now the good (end??) of the story, which means: My bank (whose hebrew name is “BankHapoalim” = “bank of the worker class”) accepted my w8 form (which is for non- u.s. persons and to differ from w9), but it was only after….
      But let’s start from the beginning the little long answer for you which will be divided into 2-3 replys. So, as I said, I was born in Israel. My parents WERE ALSO NOT BORN (fortunately, of course:)) IN USA.
      When i was 1.5 years old I moved with my parents (who had a special visa) to usa. There, my father had any position. These era extended 3 years till i was 4.5 years old. During the same era MY YOUNGER BROTHER (AND THE ONLY ONE) WAS BORN IN USA and therefore is considered to be american citizen.
      Anyway, when i was 4.5 years old the special visa expired and me and my parents (and of course my brother:)) backed to Israel and have never became american citizens or even got a Greencard. Story to be continued.

    3. I didn’t forget to continue writing my story and different things around. Just need little more time to write. Yes, I read about the lawsuit in Israel, which is also considered to be a country with a relatively high rate of people considered (by USA; of course 🙂 ) to be u.s. persons.
      It couldn’t be something other than being aware of the same lawsuit in Israel after searching so much about Fatca in internet due to my story, which (among others) leaded me to your forum.
      In order to calm you i will mention again that I kept the proofs that the bank accepted my w8 form (which means i didn’t have to fill w9 and he accepted my claims that i’m not u.s. person). But that was a very terrible experience…..
      **And about my brother** : Only the INITIAL treatment (before, **and in addition**, to the regular annual ones) by an israeli-american (also dual citizen) accountant costed him some average salaries (in israeli terms). And all was only for (and despite) 0 american dollars “obligations” to USA in the bottom line. If we were a poor family, i don’t want to think what could have happened……

    4. MY NEXT TIME (after backing to Israel) in USA was by the age of 16 years old (25 years ago) AND THAT WAS MY LAST TIME IN USA. It was a travel with my family to USA for a month, which included also 5 days in Canada 🙂 . For the same travel me and my parents needed, as israeli citizens, a visa for usa (B1-B2 type) which was signed in our passports.
      The visa is **one more proof**, **in addition** to my birth in Israel (by the way, I have also my original birth document) for **not being** an american citizen, because one very clear reason (american citizens don’t need a visa for entering usa). I have also proofs that even during my adulthood my parents needed a visa for united states. So, no one would ever be able to claim that when i was a minor i became an american citizen or green card holder due to my parents.
      I can even prove that i’ve never been anymore (after the same travel 25 years ago) to usa . So, no one would be able to claim about permanent residence in usa. It’s also a well known fact that no adult person can become an american citizen before living in usa at least 3 years at the shortest cases.
      And if someone would claim that maybe i achieved a Greencard and just have never used it, the claim wouldn’t be much vaild than the claim that “there is a dwarf under the bed”. By the way, i’ve never had any real estate or business in USA.

  23. The federal government has spent $2.2 million fighting sick new Moms in a lawsuit.
    I would love to know what they have spent on our lawsuit.
    The NDP MP who obtained this information says:

    “We’ve come out of a decade where the government time and time again turned to litigation to get out of either meeting its obligations or trying to find a solution for Canadians in a collaborative way,” Ashton said.
    “I certainly hope that with a new government we’ll see a new approach on this front.”

    I certainly hope we will see a new approach too. The Liberal approach so far in our case indicates it is more of the Con Game.

  24. As I understand it, everything is in place for the lawsuit to go to the federal court. Does anyone know when that might be?

    1. Northern Shrike,
      We are seeking witnesses for the lawsuit and cannot proceed with the lawsuit until we have the needed witnesses.

  25. As I have already mentioned, right when my brother (who was born in USA) was 1 years old we moved back to Israel and the next time he set foot in his birth country was for a month for his 13 years old birthday. His next time was 2 weeks by the age of 18 and then he had in his early 20’s one whole year living in USA. And PROBABLY (i don’t remember), later in his life he had, at the most, few more short times visiting there in his life. So, I’m not even sure it can be said that in his adulthood he had real meaningful relations with USA or it can be aggregated to at least 2 years being on USA soil after his 14th birthday. Not to mention the fact that he didn’t have a real “american childhood”. I hope that his son (who was born in Israel) wouldn’t be considered as an American citizen.

    1. And now, as i promised, let’s go to the bank. So, by the summer of almost 5 years ago me and my brother joint an existing bank account of my paternal grandmother and her daughter (my paternal aunt). My father had already dead some years before.
      At the same time of joining the same account, when i wasn’t aware about the mistake, the bank official wrote me mistakenly (in addition to my brother) that i’m an american citizen without asking me or without any proof. And one day, by the summer of 2012, i got a call from the official of my bank branch (where i had an account of which i was the only owner, to differ from the branch of he joint account ) and i heard from him “You are an american citizen, so come to sign on different documents”.
      I was surprised and mainly shocked and didn’t know what the bank wanted from me. I was angry and said “I’m not an american citizen, what do you want from me?”. Of course I have never declared , and of course never signed in bank documents , something about american citizenship. “You are registered in the bank computer as an american citizen” he answered me. I asked him how it could happen. I’ll continue later.

    2. It does not appear that you nephew is a U.S. Citizen because your brother did not live in the U.S. for the time required to pass citizenship to a child.

      I hope that is some relief for your family.

      How is your brother coping with this?

      Please continue to tell us what happened with you and your bank.

    3. I also don’t think u.s. will consider my nephew as it’s citizen. He is only going to be 3 years old soon and i don’t know about someone else but me in my family who thinks NOW about this issue. I just hope that, say 13 years from now, when he would like to open a bank account, no bank official will enforce him to file W9.
      It might happen that an official – “just to be on the safe side” (not to be framed) – would do so after asking him whether one of his parents is american. At this script, the young and innocent account owner would have to collect the proofs his father wasn’t in USA (before his birth) enough time in order to “pass” his american citizenship to his son.
      I just hope that if my nephew will travel to USA before having a bank account he would not get through his father an american passport. I hope, can’t be sure at all……But i’m going to talk about the affair soon in my family.

    4. And back to my bank account. So, after the requirement to file american forms my brother, by a short time, had to leave the joint account in order not to complicate the rest of the partners. And about me, it’s not only that i was registered mistakenly as an american citizen with no fair opportunity of clarification before, no one explained me about the form i “had” to file.
      One proof i was registered mistakenly as an american citizen when i joint the account with my brother is that, for example, my aunt had never been registered so. Anyway, only the threats of a well based person to leave the bank (if bank continues requiring me filing american forms) caused the manager of the branch (where i had an account of which i was the only owner) to do efforts in order to erase the mistaken datum from both of the branches.
      But the erasing was only allegedly as it appeared later. One day by Sep 2014 when i came to my branch in order to take a new checkbook, the official told me i have to file an american form. I was angry again and told her i thought the mistake was already corrected. So the official gave me to sign a declaration i’m not an american citizen and a page on which it’s written that my citizenship is Israeli one (and nothing else or more).
      By the way, meanwhile my paternal grandma had already dead and the joint account was closed later (indeed with no special problems) and the money was delivered to the other accounts of family members. I was left with the account of which i was the only owners. Once again it happened by Sep 2015 that when i talked with an investments adviser she asked me whether i’m an american citizen. I said again that i’m not and told her that it was already ordered and she believed me. And the next “scene” happened when I passed another branch – about which i’ll tell you later during his week (now, i can’t do so).

  26. We will soon have a couple of new “U.S. persons”in Canada. Joshua Basseches, the new CEO of the Royal Ontario Museum (ROM) and his wife, Amy Perry Basseches, are moving to Toronto from Boston.
    I wonder if Mr. Basseches knows about FATCA, FBARs, FINCen and the CBT. Does the ROM know all of their accounts could now be reported to a foreign government because their CEO has signatory powers over their finances?
    I doubt if he would be a witness but I think he will soon have an OMG moment. Will he tell his bank that he is a U.S. person.

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