Maple Sandbox Rules

Maple Sandbox is a gathering place for “US persons” to come together to share, learn and explore. Together, we will stand up to IRS bullies as we work our way through the swamp of U.S. citizenship-based taxation.  We won’t allow their quicksand to  suck responsible, honest tax-paying people living in other countries into IRS pit..

WHY MAPLE SANDBOX

A sandbox is a gathering place for playing, learning, chatting, laughing, exploring, sharing, growing, creating, building and even fighting together. It also is a spot to stand up to bullies and to chase away monsters together.

The maple leaf is an internationally recognized symbol of Canada and of Canadian values and endurance. Canadian soldiers have worn maple lapels as they fought for freedom and served as peacekeepers in conflicts around the world.

The maple leaf proclaims a welcome to all from around the world to an inclusive, diverse and respectful country.

Maple syrup is a tasty treat exported from Canada to the world, poured on pancakes, on popcorn, baked into cookies, and turned into delicious candies .

Maple wood is so strong and hardy it is used for play in baseball bats, bowling pins and bowling alley lanes, as well as for ballroom dancing and gymnasium floors. Maple is often the core material in the limbs of the bow for archery because of its stiffness and strength.

Maple wood makes beautiful music through many musical instruments, including violin, viola, cello, double bass, electric guitar, drum, bassoon and other woodwind instruments. As a tonewood, maple carries sound waves, thus making it the perfect wood for both playing and listening.

Maple wood has a long history in furniture making and hardwood flooring because of its beauty and endurance.

There could be no other choice for construction of our sandbox.

CREATIONS:

We hope to build many creations together as we Blaze a new Outraged Canadian Trail to freedom from IRS.

Our first creation is the classic sandcastle built of sand from Atlantic to Pacific to Arctic shores of Canada and from the multitude of lakes in between. The sandcastle will offer refuge from IRS. The moat will protect our castle and those who dwell here, but bridges in all directions will welcome visitors, guests and members from around the world.

REFEREES:

To ensure Rules of Play are followed, Maple Sandbox has referees, who are also team members.

Referees encourage play to be free-flowing, independent and active.   When someone steps out of bounds, a referee may blow a warning whistle.  If the warning is not accepted, the referee may issue a time-out or a suspension from play.  In extreme circumstances, players may be expelled.

Referees are not perfect and sometimes will make errors. If a challenge or a replay confirms a decision was wrong, the referee is expected to admit to this and reverse the decision.

Players are encouraged to work with referees for fair play.   Players can best do this playing by the rules and trying to resolve disputes among themselves before involving the referees.

Players should feel free to step up to the referee box when needed and especially when referees are not available or not doing their job.

RULES OF PLAY:

All are welcome here. We do have some basic DO and DON’T Rules:

DO

DO Learn With Enthusiasm
DO Explore By Digging Deep
DO Share Through Show and Tell
DO Laugh and Giggle Together
DO Play With Imagination
DO Fight Fair
DO Build A New Vision
DO Bring New Ideas
DO Respect Others
DO Hold Hands
DO Help Others
DO Express Yourself
DO Stand Up To Bullies
DO Chase Away IRS Monsters
DO Sleep At Night—Or Even At Naptime
DO Bury Your Toes In The Sand (But NOT Your Head!)
DO Be A Shoulder For Others To Lean On
DO Respect Opinions Of Others—And Their Rights To Express Them
DO Help Create a Better World

DON’T

DON’T Be A Bully
DON’T Throw Sand At Each Other
DON’T Hit
DON’T Be Afraid To Cry
DON’T Be Scared Of Monsters
DON’T Call People Names
DON’T Stop Fighting For Freedom From The IRS

54 thoughts on “Maple Sandbox Rules

  1. OutragedCanadian Post author

    @Chris, please don’t rush into any decisions until you’ve thoroughly researched your situation and your options. For one thing, please keep in the forefront of your mind that our Canadian govt has said that the CRA will not help the IRS in any way to collect taxes or fines related to taxes if the liability was incurred when the person was a Canadian citizen. We do have some protection. I also believe that your sons are safe from the US trying to claim them as citizens, because of the rules around passing on citizenship to children.

    You’ll need to research what the US citizenship laws were for the year you became Canadian. It doesn’t sound like you’re old enough to have gotten Cdn citizenship at a time when that automatically revoked US citizenship, so you’ll need to do some research.

    In your situation, it might be a good idea to actually get some good legal advice from a lawyer who is well-versed in this situation. Not all lawyers are, so be careful of that if you choose to go that route.

    I would highly recommend you also read on a couple of other blogs, which have some really great and pertinent information. The Isaac Brock Society has some really good information around relinquishment and renunciation, and John Richardson’s site also has really good information.

    isaacbrocksociety.ca

    citizenshipsolutions.ca

    I am sure there will be some others who will give you some good information, as well, here. Summer’s a bit slower, what with vacations and all, but I’m sure some of the others will chime in when they get a chance. Pacifica, in particular, is a fount of knowledge around relinquishment.

    Take heart, there are people who understand and sympathize and I know collectively we’ll do all we can to help you to understand what your options might be. Every situation is different, and often it depends upon the year of Cdn citizenship, etc.

    Reply
  2. Chris

    Hello all, I hope I can get some advice from the good people of this forum before I take some fairly drastic measures to protect my children from any further draconian measures… I was born in the US to US parents, but moved to Canada when I was three years old. I have never had a Social Insurance Number, have never worked, schooled, or lived in the states since moving here at 3 years. When they brought out Permanent Resident cards, I had to get a passport, and because I had not applied for Canadian Citizenship, I had to get a US passport, due to being born there. I then decided to apply for Canadian Citizenship so I didn’t have to go through renewing the PR card every 5 years. Once I had my Canadian Citizenship and passport, I just let my US passport expire, as I didn’t see the sense in having two (and have always felt more Canadian than American in the first place). We are a simple, middle income family, in fact, I only work part time as I have concentrated more on child raising while my Canadian husband brings in most of the income. With all of this craziness, I am not sure whether my husband or Canadian born sons would be affected, however, I am prepared to divorce my spouse and surrender any parental rights in order to protect them from any financial hardships down the road. Thoughts? Help? I have tried following this situation, but it’s so complicated and the rules seem to change… I have no idea what to do. As an aside, my son is in Cadets, and I have applied to become a Certified Instructor, which means I have applied for work with the Department of National Defense… would this be enough to have my US Citizenship revoked? (I only wish it could be that easy, would have done it a long time ago)… Thank you for any advice anyone may have… Chris

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  3. atticusincanada

    Our protest today went very well! There were about 13 of us all together plus a few people who stopped by who have been reading about this and had heard about the protest from around the area. We had people there from Toronto, Ottawa, Kingston, Brockville, Beckwith! We spoke with Murray Rankin, another NDP member and Ted Hsu! Several other people stopped by from Idle No More and spoke with me about this and once they heard about the issue were completely against FATCA.

    There was quite a bit of excitement with the scare today on the hill as the offices across the street *The PM’S office* were evacuated.

    There were lots of opportunities to speak with other Canadians and once again our RCMP officer was very interested and took a flyer as well as a card. She was not thrilled with the idea of the U.S. passing laws over our border at all.

    All in all it was a successful day and I was so pleased to see so many come by. Especially the lady from Brockville who had sent her story to the Ways and Means committee. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you to everyone who made it there from Toronto and to those who took time out of their work day to stop by. Thanks especially to everyone who printed fact sheets, brought information cards and to all who were out there today. As the NDP member said to us “You are a small group but, you are getting noticed and having an impact.”

    Reply
  4. AtticusinCanda

    Sandboxers! Our permit to protest FATCA on Parliament Hill Oct. 16th has been approved between the hours of 9.am. and 3 p.m. by Heritage Canada! Score!

    Reply
  5. Jefferson D Tomas

    As to the UK, I think that somebody should stick their neck out. Instead of going through OVDI (not recommended, use at your own risk) or trying to become compliant through quiet disclosure / normal audit process, somebody needs to file a preemptive lawsuit against the UK government. Something along the lines of treason and conspiracy with a foreign power to commit theft and civil rights violations. One needs to attack before the ink on the IGA gets very dry. $

    Perhaps the Crown could intervene? Has Elizabeth II given her assent to the IGA, or was the IGA even a treaty? Does she have to give assent?

    Reply
  6. Wondering

    @ Sad-in-the-UK
    Here’s a suggestion for friends in the UK…

    When the US spent years trying to extradite UK citizen and autistic computer Gary McKinnon’s, the Daily Mail’s “An Affront to British Justice” waged an outstanding job of dogged advocacy against the encroachment of American’s extra-jurisdictional bullying.

    The Daily Mail journalists behind that were: Mark Seamark, James Black, and Rebecca Evans.

    So far, the UK popular press is silent on FATCA, probably because they never connected the dots to understand how it will discriminate against any UK citizen who was born in the US – and I understand there are untold thousands of them.

    London Mayor Boris Johnson is about to discover he’s now a second class UK citizen. Although he is a UK citizen – and the Mayor of London – under the agreement between Her Majesties Revenue Agency and the US, Mr Johnson’s banking and investment suppliers will be required to surrender the most intimate details of his financial affairs to a foreign state. Because he was born in the United States, he is now, under the proposed “intergovernmental agreement a distinctly second class British Citizen.

    The UK FATCA IGA is NOT a done deal. It has not passed Parliament.
    Alert the popular press.
    And invoke the anti-discrimination aspects of 2010 Equality Act against nationality.

    Reply
  7. OutragedCanadian Post author

    @Sad-in-the-UK, thanks for your kind comments, it’s nice to have validation that we are building the kind of forum that we wanted – supportive, friendly and yet determined to continue the fight. I believe you are right in thinking that more people are affected than are willing to admit to that possibility. Even if just economically, from the sheer excessive cost of banks having to change all of their systems to implement a foreign country’s law.

    I have to admit I haven’t tested with the Opera browser, I will work on that, I have no idea why it would be different from Chrome, Firefox or IE.

    And as Blaze said, I truly am trying to figure out why the heck this site is so slow to respond. I suspect it’s our host provider, but I’m not getting a lot of support there…

    Reply
  8. Blaze

    Thank you Sad In the UK for your comments. That is exactly the type of gathering place we are trying to offer. We are glad you feel welcome here and hope you will continue to post.

    Because we are so far mostly Canadians, we tend to be a bit Canada-centric at times, but we really do want others around the world to join in.

    Thanks for the info about the problems you had accessing the site. I will leave that to our resident Geek, Outraged Canadian to try to fix.

    For your information and that of others, Outraged is also trying to increase the speed of the site. It is frustratingly slow.

    Again, welcome. We hope you enjoy building castles in the sand with us–with moats to keep IRS and US out, but with bridges to welcome others from around the world.

    Reply
  9. Jefferson D Tomas

    @Sad-in-the-UK It is always good to see new people joining these forums such as Maple and Isaac Brock Society. The more people become involved, the more pushback we can obtain against Double Taxation, FATCA, and FBAR.

    Reply
  10. schubert

    Welcome, Sad. We’re glad to have you with us, and we hope that you can find both comfort and maybe some ideas or help in how to keep clear of the train wreck, or maybe (dare we dream) help stop or even derail the bloody train (a hefty bucket or ten of sand in its engine might help). Sadly, my sense is we have more leverage with our politicians and legal system here in Canada on these matters than you have in the UK; I hope I’m wrong in your case and not wrong in ours. As you probably know, the UK is at the moment, I believe, one of only four countries that has actually signed an agreement with the US over FATCA. I hope there won’t be any more, and I hope that Canada will, by continuing to dig in its heels and drag its feet as it has so far, encourager les autres (and I pray I’m not tempting fate or the gods by saying that). I’m glad you found us, and I hope you can find some ideas and support here.

    Expanding momentarily on the Sir Isaac Brock metaphor, in 1812 Brits, Canadians (including Canadiens and First Nations people) and American refugees from the revolution banded together successfully to repel the American invasion from Canadian soil. We can and will do that again, and I hope we can help others elsewhere as Sir Isaac and others from abroad helped our ancestors and forebearers.

    Reply
  11. Sad-in-the-UK

    Hi all,

    Thank you so very much for this website. After discovering it last week (via IBS) I have begun to sleep at night after months of not … That’s a truly wonderful gift!

    The tone you are taking seems as if it will find us allies. Having resources, scholarship, fun and emotional support, insider knowledge, and really stunning first-hand accounts all in one place, without the commercial “scare them into hiring us” angle, – this must surely make it a magnet for the media and for decent people to learn what is really happening, and the moderate approach lets people visit without feeling they are being disloyal.

    My non-affected friends, both here in the UK and stateside, seem unable to really believe what is happening; it is so far removed from those pre-9/11 days of hope and confidence, so different from their beliefs, that it’s easier to think that the “old lady is a bit off her rocker”. What grieves me most is the realization that being “non-affected” may be for some of them not as certain as it seems.

    Perhaps there are “none so blind as those who will not see”, but your approach of moderation and fun and assembling of resources and data and anecdotes and hopes and fears seems as if it may reach through to many who would otherwise put their hands over their ears.

    The tragedy is that some of them may learn that they are indeed personally affected…. It felt like watching a runaway train heading toward a level crossing – and being powerless to stop it. But thanks to this site, I think the balance of power is being changed.

    (TECH NOTE: There may be other users of the Opera browser out there right now trying to participate in this discussion, who are pleading – as I did for hours today – with your Login screen to please let them in, so they can work in the sand too, but who are being barred by a “406 not acceptable” after entering their password. What finally worked for me was to disable “Opera Turbo”. [Opera 11.11 on Linux.] Hope that lets you join in too!)

    Reply
  12. Stickman

    Note to Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan
    Suggest you mention repealing FATCA and citizenship based taxation on the rubber chicken circuit and you’ll probably score a few million votes you didn’t know were there.

    Reply
  13. Blaze

    @Ladybug: Thanks for joining us here.

    I’m certain you, like the rest of us, will leave your footprints in the sand.

    Reply
  14. Ladybug

    Blaze and Outraged, I’m a little late to the party but I’ve been dipping my toes in the sandbox from time to time and appreciate your focus and spirit. Congratulations on a great new site! I’ll be checking in regularly to see which way the sand is shifting.

    Reply
  15. schubert

    @Jefferson welcome to this forum! I have good feelings about CH, having traveled and hiked in the Alps twice and having a sister of a brother-in-law who lives in Geneva and has done for at least 30 years (I don’t want to think about what FATCA has done to her life, I’m afraid to ask and I don’t have her coordinates anyway). Great country for a tourist; the CH train and bus system puts the Canadian and US counterparts to utter shame on any dimension you care to name; Swiss and Lufthansa (which I gather now owns Swiss) airlines are both in my experience the most reliable and helpful international airlines (though I’ve actually had good experiences with Air Canada, which Canadians are always grousing about, unfairly in my view, any I believe they’re all Star Alliance partners — don’t get me started on Air France and what it’s done to my luggage transfers every single time I’ve changed flights at CDG airport … I absolutely refuse to fly them any more).

    To answer your question about my German, I won’t say I speak German. I did study it for two years in high school and one year at university, and recently I went through much of the Rosetta Stone program in preparation for my first solo trip to CH. (Not much help there; I couldn’t understand a word of CH German, something I gather a lot of native Germans also have trouble with, and though most Swiss I met could sort of comprehend my awkward Hoch Deutsch, if they didn’t speak English well we usually switched to French. I find when two people are speaking a language that is second for both of them, it usually works because the mis-pronunciations, gender, tense and other grammatical errors are usually the same or at least comprehensible, and one feels less awkward about them when speaking to another non-native-speaker. I had to learn French in the Canadian public service when I worked there, and while my idiomatic use and accent are terrible I can read French fairly easily, and as an adult in Canada I’ve had a lot more exposure to hearing and reading French than German, so I’m generally more comfortable in French. For German I need a dictionary most of the time if it’s more complex than train or bus schedules or basic street or store signs.) I’m not comfortable enough in German or French to want to translate articles from either language into English, especially on topics as sensitive and disturbing to the readers as would be anything related to FATCA and citizenship. Sorry.

    Reply

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